Talk:Tuchulcha

Mythology Low‑importance

	Mythology portal This article is supported by WikiProject Mythology. This project provides a central approach to Mythology-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the WikiProject page for more details.MythologyWikipedia:WikiProject MythologyTemplate:WikiProject MythologyMythology articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Classical Greece and Rome Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Untitled

Tuchulcha or Tulchulcha? Andres 08:29, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a search hint to answer your own question in the future:

Try googling for "Tulchulcha" (As of today, 250 results)
Try googling for "Tuchulcha" (As of today, 22,500 results)

So Tuchulcha is the winner. Hooray! --Glengordon01 20:36, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tuchulcha is a male deity, not female

It couldn't be any clearer that Tuchulcha is not a female deity.

If we see the available online pictures from the Tomb of Orcus ([1],[2]) we clearly see a bearded figure with "Tuchulcha" written above him, not her. We see him again here. There's just no "female" Tuchulcha.

As I've been saying all along (See Talk:Charun), these annoying twat websites, full of make-believe rot, pervade the internet while clearly contradicting the actual artifacts. The following sites are therefore misinforming people of more junk:

The list goes on and on if you search in Google because plagiarism and bad sources are a common theme in the 21st century. So I'm not trying to be cranky when I justly say, "People who don't question what they read just shouldn't have free reign of the Wikipedia, despite good intentions." Ignorance is never a good intention. Parroting people without questioning is irresponsible. --Glengordon01 07:46, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article now quotes this from de Grummond: "This monster is often referred to as male but in fact is very likely female (or neither gender), for she wears a woman’s dress, has decidely pale pinkish skin (compare the standard brick-red male flesh of These), and even appears to have breasts."

I detest irrational quotes that are propped up as something more significant than they are. First of all and thankfully, the quote admits that he is "often referred to as male" which Nancy should darn well know. For those that know absolutely nothing about the insanity present in current Etruscan studies, this at least suggests to the completely naive reader that the two genders are equally plausible for Tuchulcha, although this is still not a fair account. Such a bold statement is unjustified without further proofs whereas there is every justification for Tuchulcha being male.

For the millionth time, this is the picture of Tuchulcha with his name prominently written above him to give no doubt: a mural in the Tomb of Orcus. As you can see, there is no room for interpretation here because he has a full black beard, despite protests from Scott who seems strangely certain that a hitherto undiscovered "beast" is capable of such an unmistakable black beard other than a human male.

Now, unless Tuchulcha is afflicted with a supernatural hormonal imbalance, sensible people can see flat out it's a male deity and only male but this needs to be properly reflected in the article without biasing everything towards Nancy de Grummond and authors who side with her.

What's more, claiming he wears a "woman's dress" is another insult to the reader. It's as ignorant as stating that a kilt is a woman's dress, which every good Irishman will set you straight on! Tuchulcha's garb is spoken of by historians as a khiton or chiton and people who are familiar with this subject understand that it was worn by both men and women in classical times. The male deity Charun also wears this same so-called "woman's dress" as Tuchulcha, as depicted clearly here and here. This is not Etruscan transvestitism; this is inane simulacra created in recent centuries by careless wording.

Still confused about native Etruscan dress? Try looking at this panorama of clothing styles on a mural. Again, both men and women are wearing the chiton. Don't believe me? Just go to Answers.com where it states a chiton is "A tunic worn by men and women in ancient Greece." Of course, it's also worn in Etruria as we can readily see from the paintings.

And Tuchulcha's breasts? Oh god, please outline the breasts for me in that picture of Tuchulcha. Folds of cloth are not breasts, unless perhaps you're an innocent virgin. Geez Louise, dare I have a crinkle in my shirt next time I go out, lest someone think I'm growing breasts! How idiotic. --Glengordon01 11:04, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a furry donkey head with a beak. Nothing particularly masculine about it. Especially if you look at a version lacking restoration conjectures: http://www.maravot.com/Tuchulcha.html --Scottandrewhutchins 23:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

imo the only reason why the idea came out that Tuchulcha is female is that his/her name ends with "a". its just false carry-on of indoeuropean etymology. Haigejobu 21:38, 15 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, and since Etruscan is NON-Indoeuropean (one of what, 3 or 4 that aren't)? ... We have NO CLUE what Tuchulcha's gender was... (although the beard might be a clue, but then maybe the Etruscan blood is the source of all them Italian moms I've met :) NevarMaor (talk) 02:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]