Talk:DESY

Merge completed

I did the best I could with merging DESY and Desy. Please check their page histories and feel free to add something that I might have missed. In the current version, there's some ambiguity with the term "ministry". If someone could fix up that sentence, that would be great! --HappyCamper 19:09, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Article update

We notice that some of the information in this article about DESY is incomplete and partially outdated or incorrect. Having just updated the German Wikipedia entry for DESY, we propose to do the same thing here. What would be common practice: sharing a draft of the new text on this page for discussion or updating the text directly?

The new text will make sure that no relevant information currently featured in the article gets lost and that all links to related main articles (for example to PETRA and HERA) are kept and that these articles are updated as well.

@DESY-Kommunikation is not a neutral user, we have disclosed our affiliation to DESY on the German user page following article 4 of the Terms of Use and will of course also do so in the English version. However, we guarantee that the proposed changes are being made in strong keeping with Wikipedia content and style guidelines.

The update will further improve the coverage pf physics on Wikipedia within the WikiProject Physics as well as the coverage of Germany and Hamburg within the Portal: Germany and the Hamburg Task Force.

We plan to share a first version of a new article in a few days and welcome any input we can get. Thanks a lot in advance. DESY-Kommunikation (talk) 13:16, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

@DESY-Kommunikation: English Wikipedia does not allow accounts to be named after companies, or roles within companies. This is different from German Wikipedia's policy, but unfortunately on English Wikipedia it is non-negotiable. You will have to change your username to something that represents you as an individual, and confirm that you have sole access to this account, as access can never be shared amongst several individuals. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 14:25, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

@DESY-Kommunikation Having then done what @Drm310 states, your new account should still declare your WP:COI on its userpage. Then, you should make simple, clear and reasoned suggestions for changing wording, and submit this as an WP:EDITREQUEST on the article's talk page. Other editors will decide if your suggestions are appropriate to incorporate into the article.

Take one section (or paragraph) at a time, giving a clear rationale as to what is wrong, then offer an alternative form of wording and a citation to properly published sources which your company has not itself written. Remember this is a neutral encyclopaedia, not a PR platform for you or anyone else. Sometimes "less is more". If you can keep things succinct, the article will be better for it.

Following policy, I should put a 'soft-block' on your account for violation of our WP:USERNAME policy, thus giving you an incentive to create an alternative account accessed by just one person, however I'll leave it for a while, lest you wish to respond here first. Thanks, Nick Moyes (talk) 20:27, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Hiya, so I did as you suggested and created this new, individual user name. I did not expect that to be the first hurdle, but I guess life is full of surprises. I'll work on the content as suggested, declare my affiliation and hopefully enter into a fruitful discussion with the editors in the nearish future. ∼∼∼∼ Redactrice at DESY (talk) 09:39, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

At the German Wikipedia you completely replaced the article without discussing the new version, and without even using the edit summary. That's not acceptable. You can post a draft in the user namespace and then we can see if that's useful. Usernames are linked between language versions, so changing the username here would also change it in the German Wikipedia. A new account might be a better option. --mfb (talk) 05:17, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

Update: for edits proposed on talk pages, first published edits, new article proposal about DORIS

So as promised I am in the process of updating, ordering and correcting articles about or relating to DESY. I have worked my way through some articles about its facilities and history and put suggestions for new / edited content on the respective talk pages. It would be cool to get feedback for these! They are:

• TASSO
• JADE (particle detector)
• PLUTO

I've published the edits for Positron-Electron Tandem Ring Accelerator and created a draft for a new article on DORIS, which can be checked out here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Redactrice_at_DESY/sandbox/DORIS_(particle_accelerator)#DORIS_%28particle_accelerator%29

Any feedback on content, form or etiquette very welcome. Redactrice at DESY (talk) 12:09, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

PS same request posted on WT:PHYS Redactrice at DESY (talk) 12:12, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Edit and page creation proposals: DESY lab, DESY accelerator and DORIS accelerator

Now that many edit proposals to existing articles connected to DESY and its research facilities have been implemented (thanks to everybody who was involved for their feedback, support and guidance!), here are two suggestions on my Sandbox page for articles to be created about the last two DESY accelerators that don't have their own pages yet:

User:Redactrice at DESY/DESY (particle accelerator)

I've also created a Sandbox page with suggested edits to this main DESY article to update it as described above:

User:Redactrice at DESY/DESY revised

I have declared my conflict of interest on my user page and I hope I have followed all the rules of good wiki practice. I have also posted a corresponding edit request to WP:PHYS.

I'd be very grateful for your help and feedback. Thanks in advance! Redactrice at DESY (talk) 09:36, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Redactrice at DESY, this is probably the appropriate place for discussion; I've posted a suggestion to this effect at WT:PHYS. I have not spent much time on this. Your revised article is not in a format that readily lends itself to comparison, depending on the diff tool used. However, since an update is likely to be significant anyway due to elapsed time, perhaps this is not an issue. Ideally, update the draft space article(s) according to conflict of interest guidelines (despite the rejection). Also, it would be helpful not to have multiple drafts, as this can be confusing. I should be able to move your one draft from your user space to draft space if you wish and cannot do that yourself. —Quondum 20:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Looks go to me.

As a side suggestion: graphical content of all kinds helps Wikipedia pages interest readers. DESY may have content they are willing to license for use on Wikipedia (Creative Commons typically). Through attribution and caption content this would further DESY's PR goals as well. Johnjbarton (talk) 15:09, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@Quondum, @Johnjbarton thanks for your replies. To be honest, I still don't really know what to do... I would be grateful for directions on which concrete steps I need to take.

Regarding User:Redactrice at DESY/DESY (particle accelerator): This draft exists only on my sandbox so far. It would be great if you could move it to the draft space @Quondum - thanks! What do I need to do afterwards?

Regarding User:Redactrice at DESY/DORIS (particle accelerator): This draft exists on my sandbox and also in the draft space Draft:Doris (particle accelerator). The versions are identical. It was rejected on the draft space with the comment "Submitter works for DESY". Does that mean that I would never be able to get this article published (despite having declared my COI)? If so, I fear the same will apply to the DESY (particle accelerator) draft. What would be your advice? Should I wait for the WT:PHYS community to help with editing and publication or is there anything else I can/should do?

Regarding User:Redactrice at DESY/DESY revised: I have tried to highlight new content in the revised version to make it easier to compare - all new text is in bold type. Is there another way of doing that to make it easier for editors? I understand that as an author with a conflict of interest, I cannot make changes to the published/existing article myself. So what would be the next step(s) to get the proposed changes edited and published?

@Johnjbarton thanks also for the suggestion for new graphical content - I have included some new, properly licensed images already, but could look into finding additional ones to illustrate the article further. Redactrice at DESY (talk) 13:42, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

In my opinion you have gone above and beyond the WP:COI requirements given that DESY is a public benefit research laboratory.

[[1]]

"There are forms of paid editing that the Wikimedia community regards as acceptable."

I encourage you to publish the pages and to correct them directly within the bounds of the COI guidelines. Johnjbarton (talk) 17:03, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Redactrice at DESY, as per WP:DISCLOSE, please place the template {{Connected contributor|User1=Redactrice at DESY|U1-declared=yes|U1-otherlinks=(Optional) Insert relevant affiliations, disclosures, article drafts or diffs showing COI contributions}} at the top of User talk:Redactrice at DESY/DESY (particle accelerator), containing suitable clarification of your connection. This discloses your involvement. I can then move it into draft space. It is usually lack of transparency or being pushy that is frowned on. The push-back by an editor was possibly because your COI was not clearly shown. Please do not be discouraged. —Quondum 22:50, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Quondum @Johnjbarton, I have placed the template with a list of relevant articles on top of the talk pages of DESY (particle accelerator) and DORIS (particle accelerator). Can you have a look and check whether this is okay, and if it is, move DESY (particle accelerator) into draft space and do whatever is necessary for the DORIS article? If it isn't please let me know what the template should say instead. I know any additional text is optional, but I wanted to err on the side of caution and disclose all connected articles. Thank you! Redactrice at DESY (talk) 09:14, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

Redactrice at DESY, I have moved User:Redactrice at DESY/DESY (particle accelerator) and reversed the decline at Draft:Doris (particle accelerator). For the latter, it may make sense to decline it again and move your user space draft to the all-caps version Draft:DORIS (particle accelerator), but your user space version does not have your declaration yet. Would you add that at User talk:Redactrice at DESY/DORIS (particle accelerator)? Since a redirect already exists at that location, I may not have the privileges to do this myself, but do not want to attempt it without a declaration attached. —Quondum 13:51, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Quondum Thanks! I have added the declaration at User talk:Redactrice at DESY/DORIS (particle accelerator). Caps would indeed make more sense. – Redactrice at DESY (talk) 15:17, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I have requested the move, since I am unable to do so. —Quondum 16:22, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

The two accelerator articles are now in Draft space. These could probably use some work (they're pretty low on content), and the debate about how to partition content with DESY has yet to be had before moving these to article space. I have not reviewed them in this regard. It may help to ping us when these are nominated for article space. Remember that drafts that remain idle for 6 months may be deleted. —Quondum 18:35, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Quondum Thanks again! I'll monitor the articles and let you know.

I agree that the articles could do with some more content. They currently are the way they are because they contain the information from the DESY article that I wanted to preserve. I am happy to add a bit more flesh to them if you think that helps.

Once these two are done (or moving forward), I'd like to tackle the proposed update of the DESY main article. What do you think is the best way to proceed here? There are a few factual updates that shouldn't be controversial (in fact none of it should be controversial but that's a different discussion) and a few new sections. Redactrice at DESY (talk) 06:29, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

The changes are fairly significant in the sense of how much text is impacted, and WP does not really have a mechanism for streamlining such mediated changes. My approach might be to do this one section at a time, since the sections are largely organized by accelerator. However, this us going to take time and care by someone (me?). Incidentally, the order should not be important, inasmuch as each accelerator can be handled separately. —Quondum 10:59, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

Better late than never: thanks very much for all your help and hard work!!! Redactrice at DESY (talk) 09:16, 14 September 2023 (UTC)