Talk:S. M. Stirling

Islamic Characters in S.M. Stirling

Given the amount of text devoted here to S.M. Stirling's alleged Islamophobia and its influence on his work, can someone give me an example of a 'bad' Islamic character? I have not read the full canon of Stirling's work, only the General and Draka series, and The City Who Fought and the Peshawar Lancers.

The only example I can think of is the psychotic ruler of the Colonists Ali in the 'The Sword'; his Brother Twefik is highly honorable, as are his officers; the colonial rank and file are portrayed as no better but no worse than the Civil Government troops; and the spies Abdulla and Ndella are portrayed as moral products of liberal Islamic societies. The Afghan in the Peshawar Lancers (the only Islamic character in close contact with the other characters) is honorable and furthermore is assumed to be honorable by the other characters.Jmackaerospace (talk) 15:06, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

There is a quote that seems to be very appropriate here, and I believe that it came from Piers Anthony, another author constantly slandered. It basically states "There is a name for somebody who confuses an Author, and the characters he writes about. That name is 'Idiot'." Mushrom 13:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Obsession with Cannibalism

Could something be added to the article about Stirling's recurrent fantasies about cannibalism? It's a pretty odd personal fantasy of his reflected in novel after novel

Why is it odd? He continually writes novels about the violent downfall of society after some catastrophe. To be realistic, he can't avoid the topic. - Merzbow 18:30, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I see where Anon is coming from; cannibalism is far more frequent in Stirling novels than in most and, in actual history of collapsing societies, is extremely rare. So, the fact that it is a recurrent motif in Stirling's fiction is ... odd. If our Anonymous friend would like to add some material on this that meets wikipedia standards, I have no objection. --Stampcollector 20:41, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't comment on history of collapsing society (the societies that I know of having collapsed tended to do so without reliable commentators around) but canabalism is/was very common in shipwrecks and comparable disasters. Canabalism was so common in these situations that rescued mariners tended to affirm VERY fervently if they had been luckiy enough not too have to resort to the last extreme.Jmackaerospace (talk) 22:49, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Nationality in the LEAD sentence per wp:mosbio

I am surprised we didn't have French-Canadian-American :). Anyways, does he hold duel citizenship? What nationality did he hold when he did his most significant/noteworthy work? Just trying to standardize, thanks--Tom 17:51, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I just took a quick look at the author bios in the books by Stirling listed at Baen.com and found nothing useful. All that http://www.smstirling.com/ has is "I'm a writer by trade, born in France but Canadian by origin and American by naturalization, living in New Mexico at present." So the change Tom just made looks pretty good to me. Cheers, CWC 03:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Political views should be discussed

Mr Stirling has some rather strident, if less than savory, political views that crop up again and again in his fiction and even more so in his non-fiction. Some sort of section dealing with them should be added to the article.68.158.113.172 03:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Eh, it's interesting, but I'd figured it was kinda clear in his books. The only sympathic portrayal of an Islamic charecter in anything if his I've read made quite clear the character's deficiencies were the fault his Afghan culture.

On the other hand, Stirling seems to be nearly as much as a cynic about human nature as I am. His heroes are, at best, decent, yet authoritarian inclined. His villians plumb the depths of human depravity, yet are often disturbingly sympathetic in their ambitions. It's a large part of why I like his work. Not quite Marlowe or Webster, but close. ~Luke --71.192.116.13 21:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree that a section on S.M. Stirling's political views would be useful, even a section on the political views of his heros. I am less optimistic about anyone coming up with a convincing explanation of what they are (given the tenor of this talk page as a whole). Jmackaerospace (talk) 15:06, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Kicked off soc.history.what-if?

I occassionally try to read through soc.history.what-if, band in my latest attempt, I found a post implying that Stirling was kicked off shw-i for his er-- passionate dislike of the Islamic religion. Anybody know anything about this? That might also be worth a mention. (In older threads I found there he was a frequent poster, and the wiki notes now that he contributes to another (previously obscure) AH newsgroup.)

Any rate, yeah, I see no reason not to include his views on Islam, I'm pretty sure he's open about it any rate. ~Luke (but not the one in the thread) --71.192.116.13 21:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

You can include them if you can find a reliable source that discusses his views on Islam. Newsgroup postings are explicitly excluded by policy. - Merzbow 23:04, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually I was kinda hoping someone in the know could tell me. I've seen frequent references to an anti-Muslim bias (and I can certainly see it supported in his works, though one could make a number or arguments about bias in his works), but I haven't seen anything solid either.

In reality, this is something that really does not apply to the article. On the few occasions where Islam is even mentioned in most of his books, it is obvious that the character is speaking from their belief, not that of the author. And to be fair, a great many of his characters poke fun of or put down all religions, including Catholicism, Jewish, even Buddist, Wicca, and Atheism. Everybody has beliefs that others do not agree with, that does not mean that they should be put into an encyclopedia article simply because you do not agree with them. Unless Mr. Stirling is known to wear Klan robes and march in public shouting "Death To Islam", then his personal and private beliefs should be left just as that, personal and private. Mushrom 13:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I do know that the people who use that newsgroup do read this page, and I was hoping one of them might provide it. I was trying to hint at it with that post, but I'll ask more directly: if you're in that newsgroup and know the details, could you provide them?

The no newsgroup policy is rather silly if identities can be confirmed (but then the catch-22 of editing wikipedia was one of the two main reasons I left). Still, again, I'm sure if he's openly made statements to the effect on the newsgroups, he'll have been open about them elsewhere, and the people who knew him on the newsgroup can provide the details and some backing. --71.192.116.13 05:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

There's no such thing as getting "kicked off" of an unmoderated newsgroup like soc.history.what-if. He may have stopped participating, and he (or others) may have attributed that circumstance to the actions of others, but it ain't the same thing. Spikebrennan 20:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I know not of this newsgroup but he was kicked off alternatehistory.com for racist views.--Him and a dog 13:54, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Can you back that up? If so great. If no, then you are just slinging mud along with everybody else. Evidence, the truth made flesh, this is what we need.Jmackaerospace (talk) 15:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

http://www.alternatehistory.net/discussion/showthread.php?p=1095058#post1095058--Him and a dog 16:40, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

yep a thread you have to be logged in to view, really helpful —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.122.63.133 (talk) 19:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Anybody who's read any of his books knows what kind of bull is the claim he's a racist... the major hero in his Nantucket series is a black lesbian. - Merzbow (talk) 18:31, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Because of course all racists are anti-black homophobes.--Him and a dog 16:40, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Emberverse article?

Is there enough info to give the Emberverse series its very own article dedicated to it? With 9 novels (5 yet to be published), 2 short stories, and information available on internet by Stirling, I think there is enough, but I was wondering if anyone thinks thats a good or bad idea. Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 15:36, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

If it is deemed worthy, I will happily contribute. Saralleine (talk) 16:00, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

such an article should be a combined Nantucket-Emberverse article. 76.66.200.21 (talk) 07:01, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Such articles exists: The Emberverse series and Nantucket series. Also I don't think the two universes should be combined into one article. They are certainly connected, but they both follow different characters, and plots. Also no character from either universe has ever crossovered into the other. I realize that with the recent release of The Sword of the Lady that seems like a strange thing to say, but the appearence of Marian and Swindapa at the end were not the actual characters but powerful beings who took their image to communicate with Rudi. Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 13:49, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Third Lords of Creation Novel

Has this definitely been cancelled? If so, should we at least refer to a book that was planned and then cancelled?

Saralleine (talk) 23:35, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

The author informs us that he has too many other commitments at this time (rest of DtF series plus a new urban horror series) to write a third novel in the LoC series. It's not canceled, it's simply not on his active list and (AFAIK) not under contract. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarlneustaedter (talk • contribs) 22:07, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Source needed

Stirling's books in this series are popular with many Western soldiers for their portrayal of the mechanics of an ideologically driven insurgency.

This is an interesting claim, but I would very much like to see an actual source for it. It sounds more like an assumption of what the editor believes, based on his own opinions. --Michael K Smith^Talk 13:34, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Why has this still not been addressed? This sentence is highly suspect, borderline inflammatory, and as mentioned over a year ago, it lacks a source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CapitalistOppressor (talk • contribs) 03:44, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Inflammatory how?Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:51, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Are the Shadowspawn officially vampires or not?

There's a page I help maintain that's about the traits of various fictional vampires. The question has been raised (a while back) about whether to include the Shadowspawn, who are not "officially" vampires, but the list has both the Wraith from Stargate: Atlantis, and the Twilight sparklepires.

So, could someone who feels qualified to comment please wander by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_vampire_traits_in_folklore_and_fiction#Should_we_add_the_Shadowspawn and weigh in? And, of course, if you think they should be added, feel free to do so...Tamtrible (talk) 09:27, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

They drink blood from living people. That's pretty much the definition of vampire. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 18:55, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I am inclined to agree. If anyone feels competent to populate the table, I'd appreciate it...Tamtrible (talk) 20:06, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I put entries in, but if someone who's read the books less than a year ago, or has read more than the first one, or has it t'hand for reference, or simply has a better memory than I do, could fact-check, I'd appreciate it. Given the length of the table, it helps to have the original page open in another tab/window so you can keep the headers straight...Tamtrible (talk) 20:53, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Or, if any kind soul knows the data, but is daunted by the tables, put the relevant information in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_vampire_traits_in_folklore_and_fiction#Should_we_add_the_Shadowspawn and I'll add it to the table proper. Tamtrible (talk) 09:04, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

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This article is in surprisingly bad shape

Fans and others, get some good WP:RS in there. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:15, 25 July 2019 (UTC)