Talk:Catamaran

comments

Thank you all for the work. This article is much improved since I last worked on it (2008) Slamlander (talk) 23:15, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

"The catamaran was first discovered being used by the paravas, a fishing community in the southern coast of Tamil Nadu, India." What? Discovered b y whom? very POV statement there, not to mention it being nearly meaningless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.63.45.194 (talk) 23:46, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Surprised about the POV near the start of the article- especially the idea that monohull sailors are 'jealous' of multihulls and thus spurn them. AFAIK, monohulls continue to be popular for many very good reasons, not all of which are reflected in the article: they can be self-righting, whereas a cat cannot; the popular <25ft models can provide good acomodation, whereas a cat cannot; they can have much lower windage above the waterline than a cat; their lower windage and greater keel area confer benefits when sailing to windwards; finally, a multihull is inherently a more fragile design (Team Philips anybody?). 81.158.162.233 (talk) 19:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

This is a ridiculous article. Catamaran is very generic term for a type of boat and the exact history of the type is not comletely known. The Tamil claim is a very weak one, however. Catamarans are known as Polynesian craft, and the Polyneasian made great voyages on them.

The picture the typify what a "catamaran" is, is a joke. It doesn't even appear to have two hulls.

I subscribed to Mutihulls magazine for a decade and never saw anything like that in the many article on catamarans I read.

In summary this page appears to have been taken over by and ethnic group with a weird agenda to drive to the detriment of people seeking information.

If you want the most typical catamaran to picture it would be a Hobie 16". I would venture to guess that over a million have been made at this point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.177.193 (talk) 21:08, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

While I might agree that we could have better photos of cats, I completely disagree that Hobie Alter's design typifies the cat (it doesn't). If anyone wants better photos then they can very well contribute them. This also aside from the fact that people who spout off like this anonymously carry a lot less weight with me and some others. Slamlander (talk) 10:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I hope that people find this addition helpful. Dinghy racing in Britain is among the fastest growing sports, and the multihull/ monohull deabte is very topical. The situation may not be the same in the States or elsewhere, comments welcome. Great idea, this open source encyclopeia. Wow, yesterday I didn't know I would be a contributor to an encyclopedia! Double wow!! Me

An excellent start. Since this is an encyclopedia for the rest of the world too, I am somwehat at a loss wrt these models:

Are they Britain-only? I've certainly never heard of them

Egil 13:52 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

I deleted this fragment: the sails don't loose power due to the hull and mastno over because I have no idea what it means. charlieF 16:55 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

Sorry for clumsy language and typo: A rig (i.e. sail) that is upright will have more area exposed to the wind than a rig and sail that is exposed to the wind at an angle. A cat will keep the mast essentially upright, while a mono will lean over and loose power.

Thanks for the comments and amendments, Egil, the page looks a lot better. I've added "European" at the end as most of the boats are popular in Europe as well as Britain. Tony

On the other hand, the latter feature also gives the mono a greater degree of "forgiveness", because in a gust, if a monohull skipper does not ease the sheets, the boat will lean over even more, and thus loose power "automatically" (it may broach though, and thus loose control). On a cat, it is more important to be observant and adjust the sheets, since the boat will be less forgiving.

If you could formulate this better and put it back in the article, I'd be happy -- Egil 17:35 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

Lately the sails on cat's have changed a lot. The new sails love's that gust of wind! The so called "Fathead" sails do the sheets adjustments. Pieni.nl Mar 22, 2006 (UTC)

Why in Europe? The Hobie surely is American, the Tornado is international olympic, and the Catapult, Stealth, Spitfire, Hurricane, as far as I am concerned I'm guessing they are UK only. -- Egil 04:31 Mar 17, 2003 (UTC)

I think the others are popular in Europe as well, I agree about Hobies and Tornados. How about a list of popular cats ascribing to each the area/country where it is popular? Or a list of continents showing what the popular cats are.. Tony

I've put in the bit about heeling and sail power. Good job. Tony.

---

Could someone add where the name comes from and what it means? Alter Ego 16:56, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

---

With respect to popular racing catamarans, it would be a good idea to explain that Tornados are popular because they are an Olympic class, which in my book is favoritism! Hobie Cats are extreemly popular. There is the Hobi Cat 16 which does not have any dagger boards and can be "beached", hence very popular around sandy beach areas. The Hobi Cat 18 is a huge race class. However, the ebst catamaran I have sailed are from Performance catamaran who make the Prindle and Nacra models, with the Nacra being the higher performance ones. One of the particularities of the Nacra are the shape of the front of the hulls, they are designed to litterally go through waves. In comparisson with a Hobi Cat 18 that have some form of a cap that when you hit big waves, or when you downwind hull goes deep in the water, the hull design will slow you down, while the Nacra is designed to go thorugh that. The end result is that Nacras are much fatser and safer.

Catamaran - my first impression

Being a Filipino (a citizen of the Philippines, on the west Pacific Ocean in Southeast Asia), my first impression of the Catamaran is that it was Filipino in origin. Catamaran is actually a Filipino word that means "laziness," thinking that it was named so because it could get you farther with less effort than the usual sea vessels. I also wondered how come most of the native fisherman's boats here have narrow bodies with outriggers on each side if indeed the Catamaran was Filipino. Thus in my search for the true origins of Catamaran the boat, I have come to realize that it is a good thing that it is not actually Filipino in origin. Thanks to wikipedia!

In Charles Dickens' Nicholas Nickleby, Arthur Gride calls his servant a catamaran. It seems there must have been an additional definition in English (besides a type of boat), but I have been unable to find any sources to confirm this. "Lazy" would fit the usage I'm looking for. Does anyone know for sure if that's an alternate meaning? BrainyBroad 16:26, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

big sailing catamarans

As one of the designers (CPA), I propose the link:

• www.lady-barbaretta.com [not signed]

I looked at the 'Lady' site and didn't see any catamarans; it is an ad for Virgin Airlines and related ventures/adventures, such as, "New, December 12, 2013, Virgin Galatic shows off its new wings." — FYI, Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 17:02, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

On the other hand, I am just browsing here; what about 'big sailing catamarans'? Just asking, Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 17:02, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Wave Piercing Catamaran

Can somebody include what makes a catamaran a Wave Piercing Catamaran? Thanks, Stefan --58.187.33.6 15:57, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge from Catamaran History

The above article contains the history of how catamarans were first sighted by a western sailor, and various other tidbits of history regarding Catamarans. I propose that it be merged with this article under a separate section "History" or "Origins", since it is not notable or interesting enough to have a separate article.--May the Force be with you! Shreshth91($ |-| ŗ 3 $ |-| ţ |-|) 16:16, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

• 100% agree with the above. rgds, Boatman 13:37, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

That is a good idea. In fact, www.catamarans.now has some definitive articles on some of the biggest historical milestones with regards catamarans including Lagoon and other articles by Peter Nielsen. :Please take a look at this link for reference purposes:

http://www.catamarans.com/news/boatbuilding/LagoonHistory/

I agree Daniel (☎) 17:13, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed and done it in a section of its own, wikified the incoming text, but it needs a reference for one section so added the {{fact}} tag Fiddle Faddle 06:48, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Catamarans for ferries

This is in danger of becoming a huge list.

Could contributing editors look at it and decide first if a list is worthwhile, and second if this article is the right place for a list or if it should be split out. My own feelings are to split it out.

Fiddle Faddle 16:25, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree, just around the norwegian coast there are atleast somewhere between thirty and fourty such vessels. As the article is now, I don't think adding them is wise, but as a separate article I can add them and their description. -JD

Split performed. Please sign comments with ~~~~ - it makes it easier to follow who has done what. Fiddle Faddle 09:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Merge from Cataraft

Please merge relevant content, if any, from Cataraft per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cataraft. (If there is nothing to merge, just leave it as a redirect.) Thanks. —Quarl ^(talk) 2007-03-04 04:39Z

Pitchpoling/triping on the bow is an old school problem

---

Catamarans are less likely to capsize in the classic 'beam-wise' manner but often have a tendency to 'pole-axe' (or 'pitchpole') instead - where the leeward (downwind) bow sinks into the water and the boat 'trips' over forward, leading to a capsize.

This is an issue with a few older designs, specifically the Hobie 14/16, that is not shared by most modern designs, i.e. Nacra/Inter 20 and a lesser degree the F18 & F16. --I20-312 03:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Somewhere in the edits since I originally re-wrote most of this, in 2008, the words were lost that Hereshoff himself knew the correct solution for the problem and had incorporated it in Amarylis. Unfortunately, this is a meme that maliciously keeps recurring. Slamlander (talk) 15:06, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Factual validity of statement needs verification with numbers

In the article it is stated that: Currently, most individually owned catamarans are built in France, South Africa, and Australia.

I think the Hobies are the most numerous in the world - where are these made? Would prefer to see numbers that indicate how many produced in each of these countries or percentage.

Can someone explain how a sail catamaran can reach a speed 1.5 times that of the wind? My basic understanding of sailing gives a 100% wind-speed as an ideal top speed, without power or currents. Once the boat goes faster, the wind is basically pushing it backward. Manofthesea (talk) 18:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, at encouragement to look it up myself, I found articles that demonstrate the math for a sailed vessel to travel at an angle to the wind faster than the wind. With low enough drag, the ship can travel (in sum) against the wind, faster than the wind. But I did not understand that the sailed vessel can sail directly against the wind, faster than the wind. Manofthesea (talk) 19:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

The best speed of a multi is on a Reach or a Broad Reach, where you can achieve 1.5 times windspeed or slightly more. This is becase of aeordynamic effects and the absence of ballast wieght which allows the multi-hull to plane. The superstructure needs to present as low a drag as possible and the whole boat needs to be a light as feasible. Refernece the Gun Cat. Slamlander (talk) 14:59, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Hawaii ferry

Please also include the hawaii ferry as a mega catamaran (it has some unique ecological/engineering features). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.246.132.145 (talk) 18:21, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

hobiecat 16 how to set up

we are trying to set up a hobiecat 16 and cant figure out how to set up the rigging and how to set up the mast —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.162.123.250 (talk) 02:20, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Capsizing

A problem with catamarans is that if one does capsize it's difficult to right it. I've never heard of a self-righting catamaran or other multihull design. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bizzybody (talk • contribs) 22:57, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

This is a critical problem of the design, particularly for cruisers. It seems that this problem of high initial but no ultimate stability is notproperly addressed, in this somewhat one-sided article. A section on advantages and disadvantages compared to monohulls is needed, for things such as this and, off the top of my head, typically shallower draft (advantage), particularly poor performance heading off the wind on more than a broad reach. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.247.16.238 (talk) 05:12, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The largest danger to crew in offshore sailing in being thrown overboard. For cruising cats, this is a very small problem, and so is capsize unless you are driving the boat too hard for conditions. You are much more likely to go in the water off a deck pitched over 30 degrees and more in a knock down or broach. In conditions where a rogue wave is a possible danger, a monohull can be rolled over and this is much more violent than ending up mast down and still foating. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.230.164.139 (talk) 22:00, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

List of catamaran manufacturers

Does the list of manufacturers added by Rps today need to be changed to comply with WP:EL? -- Autopilot (talk) 00:54, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

It was a link farm. I have deleted it. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 18:21, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

What does this sentence mean?

"The catamaran was first discovered being used by the paravas, a fishing community in the southern coast of Tamil Nadu, India."

If it was being used, then that wasn't its first discovery. Are we claiming that its earliest recorded use was among the Paravas? The word "discover" doesn't convey that idea, quite. -68.191.214.241 (talk) 18:27, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Real word or typo?

Regarding the sentence

Allures, a yacht-catamaran of more than 100 feet was launched in 2007 at Blubay Yachts, France and refeted by Coste Design&Partners.

If "refeted" is a real word, please define it. Is it by chance a typo for "refitted"? Substantiation of this possibility is, e.g.,

Shipyard/Builder : Composite Works, France
Naval Architect : Jean-Jacques Coste
Stylist : Jean-Jacques Coste

at http://www.navis-yacht-charter.com/luxury_catamaran_charter_allures

Mahnut 04:54, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Definitely should be "re-fitted". Also "yacht-catamaran" is incorrect. A yacht has one hull only. "yacht-catamaran" should be changed to "sailing catamaran" Boatman (talk) 08:11, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

The term "yacht" means a pleasure or recreational vessel. "Yacht" is NOT synonymous with monohull! Arrivisto (talk) 09:02, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Another unclear sentence?

The following doesn't make sense to me--you don't have a hull resting on another hull. Shouldn't the first use of "catamaran hull" be changed to something else, maybe "catamaran deck", or "catamaran cockpit", or "the deck and main body of the boat", or "the deck and superstructure of the boat"?

"The Westamarans, and later designs, some of them consisting of a catamaran hull resting on an air cushion between the hulls, became dominant for all high speed connections along the Norwegian coast."

Rhkramer (talk) 14:50, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Tacking a multihull

Most references to tacking a multihull make some comment about backing the jib. This is guaranteed to put the brakes on! I learned to tack properly after blowing a Hobie 16 jib out in a storm. It seems to fly against conventional wisdom, but the winning crews in Hobie nationals seem to do the same thing..... Turn through the wind fairly slowly. Fast turns require significant velocity changes on the hulls and the rudders act as brakes. On a Hobie, get hold of the boom (or use the traveller) and pull it into the wind - gently so that you are not stalling the main. This has the effect of pushing the stern of the boat around. Stop moving the boom across when it is in the correct position for the new tack. That's it! The boat keeps moving through the tack, losing much less speed than it does when backing the jib. The maneuver works equally well on large multihulls and backing the main will even get one out of irons (provided you know how to steer backwards). Those wide travelers make backing the main easy! Given the objection that many sailors express to tightening the main in a tack, I was reluctant to put this in the main article until a few others support the notion. Try it and see if it improves your tacking.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.172.201.161 (talk) 06:17, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I've sailed a number a cats including Hobie 16s, and this seems reasonable if/when it works. In general, backing the jib should be avoided if you can and not jamming the tiller is also good advice for tacking fast. Backing the main is really similar to roll tacking a board boat. Cats never tack quite that easy except nowadays on foils where they stay on foil through both tacks and jibes. In larger cats, a good boat can tack without much tacking and I would try the main back process. I have my crew tack the jib as soon as I know I can carry through on momentum and fill the main. Trimming the jib too soon on the new tack can send you back into irons and I hate steering in reverse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.230.164.139 (talk) 22:09, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

I've sailed a number a cats including Hobie 16s, and this seems reasonable if/when it works. In general, backing the jib should be avoided if you can and not jamming the tiller is also good advice for tacking fast. Backing the main is really similar to roll tacking a board boat. Cats never tack quite that easy except nowadays on foils where they stay on foil through both tacks and jibes. In larger cats, a good boat can tack without much tacking and I would try the main back process. I have my crew tack the jib as soon as I know I can carry through on momentum and fill the main. Trimming the jib too soon on the new tack can send you back into irons and I hate steering in reverse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.230.164.139 (talk) 22:34, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of "monohull catamaran" photos

I propose to delete the two photos of the "monohull catamaran". While I accepted they may underline the early etymology of the word "catamaran", it is confusing and unhelpful to show these pictures. In modern usage, a catamaran is only ever a twin-hulled multihull. Arrivisto (talk) 08:59, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

 Done — Gone. Don't waste your time looking. If you do a 'find' in the article for [monohull] there are no hits, as suggested. Excellent article .!. Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 17:29, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Amas and Akas

The terms, amas and akas are inappropriately applied to catamarans here. An ama is an outrigger float, not a hull, and an aka is the structure that supports the ama. A catamaran has two hulls and a bridge deck connecting them. After pausing for further discussion of this point, I will edit, accordingly. Sincerely, User:HopsonRoad 18:39, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Paragraph on Eric de Bisschop

I can't seem to find very much information on this man; his biographical page is poorly referenced, and it is unclear to me whether he actually sailed this "double canoe" all the way to France. Anybody with more information on this man, and perhaps access to his book Kaimiloa would be much appreciated.

The passage in question is as follows:

In 1936 Éric de Bisschop built a Polynesian "double canoe" in Hawaii and sailed it home to a hero's welcome in France. In 1939, he published his book Kaimiloa, which was translated in English in 1940.

Sam.hill7 (talk) 03:49, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Overabundance of images

Wikipedia articles are not merely collections of photographs or media files with no accompanying text. This article has a hodgepodge of images that do not add value to the text. I plan to re-organize the images in a manner that is tied to the text, using the most illustrative examples. Please expect to see some galleries and images removed from the article that are not adding value. Sincerely, User:HopsonRoad 14:24, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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Cruising cats

It seems to me that the following sentence in Cruising is topsy-turvy nonsense: "Choosing a catamaran offers increased speed at the expense of reduced load per unit of cost. A cruising monohull may be as short as 30 feet (9.1 m), whereas Howard and Doane put the threshold for a cruising catamaran at 40 feet (12 m), to achieve the same accommodation of cruising accommodation for crew and supplies." A cruising cat of 9M has the accommodation of a 12M monohull; and a 12M cruising cat (such as the Catalac 12M) has the accommodation of a very much longer and more expensive monohull. Arrivisto (talk) 00:31, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, Arrivisto. I've modified the text to better reflect what is found in the source cited. See what you think. HopsonRoad (talk) 02:55, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

It's a start, certainly. When I have a moment, I'll make some changes too. Thanks. Arrivisto (talk)

The idea that cats of 30 feet cannot be considered cruisers and are inferior to the same length monohull is simply false. Having cruised on a 30 ft cat with two adults, six kids and a german shepard, I beg to differ. An Iroquois Mk I on Lake Michigan. No 30 ft keelboat can do that in any kind of comfort. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.230.164.139 (talk) 22:41, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Types by size

Dinghy-sized catamarans are sometimes referred to as "Beach Catamarans".I guess this is the same thing as beachcats. Article doesn't say what falls under that category (size, number of crew membwers...) 213.149.61.151 (talk) 23:46, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. We use reliable sources in our articles. Can you supply links to an article for each of the terms that you advocate for? Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 13:15, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

It isn't a precise cutoff, more about type of boat and sailing. The first C/S/K experiments were and I suspect still are used to take tourists on rides, up to 20 at a time on 30-40 foot beachcats. I never beached mine, but it would be fine except that the rudders don't kick up. It is a technique to service your cat or tri to run it up near the shore at high tide and work will it is out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.230.164.139 (talk) 22:45, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Connection to dinghy

Catamarans ... fall under the definition of dinghy. This is a quote from another wiki article. It should be covered, why, here.

Prout catamarans

Hi, I'm not entirely convinced that your edits of my stuff on Prout catamarans and mast-aft rigs amount to an improvement. I may make some edits to reinstate some elements. No hard feelings?! Arrivisto (talk) 00:01, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for contacting me, Arrivisto. From Wikipedia:The perfect article:

A perfect Wikipedia article...

• Is well written.
  • Is clear; it is written to avoid ambiguity and misunderstanding, using logical structure, and plain, clear prose; it is free of redundant language.
  • Is understandable; it is clearly expressed for both experts and non-experts in appropriate detail, and thoroughly explores and explains the subject.
  • Is precise and explicit; it is free of vague generalities and half-truths that may arise from an imperfect grasp of the subject.
  • Involves original writing but not original research; a Wikipedia article generally is the written work of its users; it will not violate another's copyright or plagiarize another's work, but its summary of information must still be completely reliably sourced; in addition, all quotes are marked with quotation marks and cited.
  • Is engaging; the language is descriptive and has an interesting, encyclopedic tone.
  • Follows standard writing conventions of modern language, including correct grammar, consistent verb tense, punctuation and spelling.

My question is whether I have eliminated important facts, made things less clear, or created some other problem? I would also question whether your additions are consistent with the tone of the rest of the article or whether they reflect a special enthusiasm for Prout catamarans. Let's have this discussion at Talk:Catamaran, so that other editors can weigh in. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 03:53, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

I know these WP guidelines and I tried to follow them. I even know how to use the subjunctive! I am not a fan of Prout and have no axe to grind, but their adoption of the mast-aft rig needs stating, and I think I did it rather more clearly than did your later edits! Arrivisto (talk) 11:31, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

I appreciate that, Arrivisto, so have a go at improving our mutual efforts to date. Do you want to develop mention of where the Mast aft rig led, as well? Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 15:21, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

I got to the page looking for information on the early Shearwater, didn't realize it was so early of a boat. Prout broth. were not as important in early offshore development and you should have a section on C/S/K, still extant as Choy Designs. This page has a number of the classic C/S/K boats. I note that Polynesian Concept was known for 1) built for Buddy Epsen (Jed Clampet) and they flipped it, which was quite the news in the multi-hull community at the time. The book "Catamarans Offshore" is a classic and should get a reference. https://books.google.com/books/about/Catamarans_Offshore.html?id=kLs269HLMukC C/S/K were once setting all the new passage records, many of them stood until the new wave of more modern megamultihulls started being built. This is a big hole in the article. Real story, the sailor who inspired me to be a sailor owned a boat just like "Yellow Bird" that you can find a picture of. It had all yellow sails too. It was raced in the 68 one of a kind and sold, damaged, after the race. It had punctured both hulls launching off one wave and landing on the next. The owner was quite competitive and I think he had made the hulls thinner by sanding them down some to make it lighter. I doubt it was the same boat, but it may have been. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.230.164.139 (talk) 22:20, 28 September 2019 (UTC)

Expansion of images

Obsidian Soul, thank you for your interest in expanding and improving this article. I noticed that, at one point, there were so many images that some were placed on the left side, which is not recommended at MOS:IMAGELOCATION. It appeared that some images were relevant to the topic, but did not support the narrative in the text, so I removed them in the spirit of WP:NOTREPOSITORY. Let's work together, if you feel that certain images will improve the article. I suggest that we propose some text that improves the article and then provide a corresponding image that supports the proposed text. We can do that here, if you like. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 21:27, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi @HopsonRoad: I actually like the remaining images as is. Except for that I still strongly think that the very first image should be an example of a traditional Austronesian catamaran, and there should be at least one more example of a traditional catamaran in the history section. Same with the Trimaran article. I think the replicas are also quite relevant, in contrast to just western historical depictions, as they are usually far more illustrative of what they actually looked like prior to the colonial era.

These articles prior to my edits a while back had a WP:GLOBAL bias in both text and images in that they largely focused on modern western catamarans (which also were the main focus of the images used) with only a very brief mention of where it came from (and only Polynesia); and in the case of trimarans, no mentions at all of the traditional trimarans still used extensively in the Philippines and eastern Indonesia (bangka, jukung, etc.). Both situations made it sound (and look) like they were western inventions solely used for sports sailing instead of being a very ancient and central part of Austronesian culture.

My additions were primarily to show the range of traditional examples of both these hull types, instead of what these articles are now which are basically just successions of western racing examples one after another. The fact that racing examples of these miltihulls have names makes it much more likely for them to be mentioned in text, as opposed to traditional examples which were types of boats rather than a specific boat. I hope we can fix that. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 23:37, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Hōkūleʻa, a modern replica of a Polynesian double-hulled voyaging canoe, an Austronesian innovation

Thank you for engaging here, Obsidian Soul. While I concur with your desire to reflect global coverage, the question in my mind is where should the emphasis be in the lead images—with the current paradigm or with the historical roots. I feel that the predominant examples should be in the lead and the broader, historical and geographically diverse should occur elsewhere. Consequently, I'm not on board with having a historical image in the lead here or at Trimaran. I'd be very comfortable with the modern replica image, shown here to return as the third image in the "Oceanian and Asian catamarans" section, but I don't see it or a historical image as one of the two images in the lead, which now has a modern sailing and powered catamaran to introduce the topic. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 23:51, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Update: I have placed the image in the text, subject to your input and further discussion, if needed. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 16:14, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

@HopsonRoad: While I probably agree on catamarans since the native versions only survive as replicas, I still disagree on trimarans. These are trimarans:

They are not "variations", but the actual thing. There are millions of them used every day for fishing, transport, and recreation in modern times, ranging from small one-person boats to large ocean-going fishing boats. It is native to maritime Southeast Asia. These are not "designed" by Victor Tchetchet, but are ancient technologies. They are quite literally the default boat design in the Philippines and neighboring regions.

These are western trimarans:

There are far fewer number of them. They are "predominant examples" only if you were a westerner and unaware of the native boats that they are derived from. I don't understand why these are deemed more representative of the topic. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 17:25, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for these, Obsidian Soul. Let's discuss at Talk:Trimaran, where I suggest that the galleries better reflect the population of boats with images, like these. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 17:57, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Pioneering Spirit

Stern view of Pioneering Spirit

The "Pioneering Spirit", the largest (work)boat in the world, designed and owned by Allseas Engineering, is NOT a catamaran. It is a pontoon-like vessel with a gap in the foreship. The ship therefore has two bows, but this does not make it a catamaran. A catamaran has two hulls!

Concur, as this photo shows.HopsonRoad (talk) 13:01, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

N Deleted sentence on the ship. HopsonRoad (talk) 13:07, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Wharram missing here

I cannot believe there is not a word about James Wharram and his contribution to catamaran's design

62.103.76.180 (talk) 04:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Well, the James Wharram article doesn't contain any reliable sources that describe anything beyond his specific designs, namely an impact on how he might have affected how catamarans evolved. Most of the sources cited are by Wharram, himself. HopsonRoad (talk) 13:45, 28 October 2023 (UTC)