Talk:Dire Straits

RfC: Is the band British or English?

Is Dire Straits a British band or an English band? Binksternet (talk) 23:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

• British. A past discussion about this issue took place in 2008: Talk:Dire Straits/Archive 1#English band? The brief discussion determined that the band was British. I agree the band is British because the two Knopflers were born in Scotland to an English mother and a Jewish-Hungarian émigré father, making the boys not solely English, hence the band is not purely English.
  Mark Knopfler was asked once whether the band Dire Straits had a distinctive "British" sound and he said no, that the band's sound was not "American or English or Japanese or German."[1] Thus we know that Mark does not think of the band as being tied to a geopolitical entity. In the US, Billboard magazine called Dire Straits "the British band"[2] but another time they said "English",[3] so that source cancels out. British author Howard Sounes calls Dire Straits a British band.[4] Indian novelist Pico Iyer calls Dire Straits a British band.[5] Binksternet (talk) 23:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

RfC: Is Mark Knopfler British or English or Scottish?

Is Mark Knopfler British or English or Scottish? Binksternet (talk) 23:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

• British. Mark was born in Scotland to an English mother and a Jewish-Hungarian émigré father. Mark spent at least six years of his childhood in Glasgow, Scotland, before the family moved to Newcastle-upon-Tyne in north-east England near Scotland. Mark said he drew from the northern Celtic tradition of his childhood for the film score he created for Local Hero.[6] Certainly he came of age in England but his roots span the UK. Binksternet (talk) 23:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
• Comment If there is any debate, shouldn't we just write British (which includes English and Scottish anyway)? --Precision123 (talk) 09:00, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

RfC: Is David Knopfler British or English or Scottish?

Is David Knopfler British or English or Scottish? Binksternet (talk) 23:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

• British. David was born in Scotland to an English mother and a Jewish-Hungarian émigré father. David spent three or four years of his childhood in Glasgow, Scotland, before the family moved to Newcastle-upon-Tyne in north-east England near Scotland. The BBC calls David "British".[7] Discogs calls David "Scottish",[8] which I think is too much of a simplification, but it is an argument against "English". Binksternet (talk) 23:44, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

• Comment He is Scottish or British by birthright according to all sources as they all cite that he was born in Glasgow, Scotland. He was raised in Scotland until he was 7 years old at which point he moved to England. It is possible that he adopted English as his nationality at some time after this, but I have not seen one item of evidence citing the adoption of English as his nationality. To many outside Britain, English is incorrectly synonymous with British. As such it is entirely possible that the confusion arises from writers not entirely versed in the complexities of nationality within the UK. Unless a citation can be found directly quoting David Knoplfler asserting "English" as his nationality, or other documented proof of a nationality change, he should be referred to as either Scottish or British (both would be considered correct). Song-writing-muse (talk) 10:10, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
  • There is no way of "adopting" one of the sub-nationalities within the UK. Officially, you're British and that's it. The Knopflers were born in Scotland of English and Hungarian parentage, and raised in Scotland and England. Both speak with English accents, and Mark Knopfler seems to identify most strongly with Tyneside in north-east England, and as the older brother he would have spent more of his childhood in Scotland. To call either of them "Scottish", without qualification, would be misleading. Probably best to go with "British" up front, and go on to explain in more detail in the article. --Nicknack009 (talk) 12:10, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
• British I've just accepted a pending revision at David Knopfler, where someone had added multiple Scottish categories. I wouldn't have added those myself, I would prefer to keep the cats to British only, but seeing as there were already several English cats there I couldn't see why the Scottish ones should be rejected. Would be helpful to get to the bottom of this finally. FWIW, I think British is both correct and uncontroversial; after all, Britishness is a fact established by one being a British citizen, whereas Englishness and Scottishness are far less clear-cut, as this debate illustrates. --DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:51, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Genre

Knopfler describes Dire Straits as a "rock 'n' roll orchestra" which, with dual keyboards, is not comparable to the definition of "hard rock" as being like Led Zeppelin, The Who, Deep Purple, Aerosmith, AC/DC and Van Halen. Secondarywaltz (talk) 05:14, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Who the hell are you people? Have you ever heard the music, or is it all "Money for nothing"? Secondarywaltz (talk) 05:15, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

"isn't even a fan of Dire Straits' early hits."

The above appears, as a quote, in the discussion of the possibility of a reunion. (It's not clear whether it's being attributed to Knopfler or Illsley.) However, that quote doesn't appear in either of the sources cited. Is this a real quote, and if so, who said it and where? 24.76.164.207 (talk) 22:53, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

If Dire Straits were ...

Is the use of the plural past tense correct, in the opening sentence: "Dire Straits were a British rock band..."?

Yes, when used as a noun to describe a narrow passage of water connecting two seas or two large areas of water, you would use "the straits were wide" for example.

In this case, Dire Straits refers to a proper noun, combined with the fact:

"To Be” is the only English verb with two past tense forms, but only “were” is used in unreal conditional sentences.

Conditional sentence -- meaning used in combination with 'if' and 'were'.

Example: If I were in a band, it would be Dire Straits.

Using "were" instead of "was" tells the reader I was not, and definitely am not, a member of the band Dire Straits, but rather if in the future by some strange pretzel-type twist of fate -- I could be, I would be. (Another way to say "were" is "was to be".)

Dire Straits did exist and is not a plural noun rather a singular thing, a band, therefore, a band is and was, not were.

(Mark Knopfler has a degree in English from Leeds. I think he would appreciate this edit. :))

Thanks Lakemcdougall (talk) 22:36, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

@Lakemcdougall: This article is written in British English and were is correct. Mlpearc (open channel) 23:05, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

References

I keep making factually and historically correct edits that are repeatedly undone by Duffy BT and Fnlayson. There is no bias in my remarks, but there is bias without them

I make factually and historically correct edits that are repeatedly undone by Duffy BT and Fnlayson. There is no bias in my remarks, but there is bias without them. This is a page about Dire Straits, not Mark Knopfler, who has his own Wikipedia page. While Mark is obviously a big part of Dire Straits, it was a band, and Duffy BT and Fnlayson seem to have forgotten that fact. I am accused of having a bias towards Alan Clark, who was a member of this band from 1980 until 1994, and who is widely regarded as the most significant, influential member of the band besides Mark, and yet before I intervened, there was only one brief mention of him. There seems to have been been a concerted campaign on this site to rewrite the history of Dire Straits. While I may not be providing references for all of my edits, they are historically and factually 100% correct, and if DuffyBT and Fnlayson wish to change these edits, they must prove otherwise. Thanks, Billybotto — Preceding unsigned comment added by Billybotto (talk • contribs) 09:35, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Ping @Duffy BT and Fnlayson: to the discussion. Schazjmd (talk) 15:10, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

User:Billybotto, You are not citing sources for your additions (see WP:VERIFY and WP:CITE). A lot of it seems to be excess details or out of place details for this article (maybe more fitting in Alan Clark's article instead). A lot of this has been stated in edit summaries, check the article history. -Fnlayson (talk) 15:49, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Note that Billybotto significantly changed their original post after it had been responded to by Fnlayson.

Billybotto, you can't simply declare "historically and factually 100% correct". You must provide reliable sources. The responsibility to provide verifiability for your edits is on you. Schazjmd (talk) 15:07, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Billybotto, reliable sources are independent of the subject of the article. The website http://www.alanclarkmusic.com/ is not independent. Schazjmd (talk) 15:45, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

As previously stated, every fact and every statement I have added/edited is factually and historically correct. Some of these appear on alanclarkmusic.com/news, and think we can assume Alan wouldn't publish anything that wasn't true. These facts came from the horses mouth, so to speak, whereas "cited sources" are second-hand statements have been published by journalists etc. When I first came to this page, I was appalled at the lack of mentions of Alan, whose contribution to Dire Straits is immense and indisputable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Billybotto (talk • contribs) 19:44, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Billybotto, please read WP:RS and learn what is considered a reliable source. Schazjmd (talk) 19:49, 28 March 2021 (UTC)