Talk:Yasiin Bey

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Not moved, 23 July 2012, from Mos Def to Yasiin Bey, see discussion.
Moved, 8 December 2023, from Mos Def to Yasiin Bey, see discussion.

Archives

Archive 1

News 2021

https://arab.news/n2cq3 Interesting project by Yasiin Bey Szczels (talk) 17:57, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing about his rap ? Nothing about his way of expression and his own style ?

This article is very limited. Yes, there is a lot of information about releases and himself in person. But completelly nothing about the way he raps. All this information stated here is unimportant and uninteresting. I would rather read about how he raps, his life in relation to other rappers etc. Nobody really cares about his family, yes it should be here and its completelly fine but the most important things about his music are missing. What is his flow ? what is he raping about ? What kind of rhymes does he use ? Who inspires him ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.211.56.219 (talk) 08:49, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP:DOITYOURSELF Howard🌽33 19:38, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

lmao i just realized this comment is from 2012 Howard🌽33 19:40, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Real Name Change

In an interview with Peter Rosenberg, Mos Def himself stated that at the end of 2011, he is officially changing his name to Yasiin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.179.49.66 (talk) 00:28, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Without even getting into how the article might be changed to reflect the future name change, it's premature to do so now because it hasn't happened yet. I therefore reverted the changes to the article.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:37, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just watched his appearance today on Colbert Report. He announced the change and performed under the new name on the show. That, and his brief explanation of the change on air, makes it official in my book. So I changed many appearances to "Smith". If you know his work better than me, feel free to revert the instances where "Mos Def" works better in context. I agree with Bbb23 that the "how" is difficult. But I think using his birth name by default makes it more encyclopedic and hopefully easier to read for the layperson. His stage name may change, but his birth name never will. So it's a start. :) ManfrenjenStJohn (talk) 06:44, 6 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've backed out all the changes. The only cited source for the name change is the same newspaper story, which says end of this year, not now. Until we have a citable reliable source that he's changed his name now, we can't change the article.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:21, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So the man saying it himself on television isn't a reliable source? You guys are pretty ridiculous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.71.2 (talk) 02:25, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think this should go in the lead. We have A redirect here from Yasiin Bey after all... LazyMapleSunday (talk) 18:13, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think the Black Star article should be reverted back to Mos Def.. especially since their one album was released under the name "Mos Def". If you look at the page for Doggy Style it's listed under "Snoop Doggy Dogg" and not "Snoop Dogg", same with "Puff Daddy" and I would hope any other artist that changed their name at a leter date. 72.184.233.201 (talk) 21:35, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is not true. talk cited the artist himself declaring it on The Colbert Report but you have ignored it and rolled back the changes without reason. It took little effort for me to find said interview. Please restore the changes. I see on your talk page that you're involved in several cases of multiple reverts, no need to generate more unnecessary noise. Marcus1979 (talk) 16:09, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article is now protected for a week while you all work this out. Any return to edit warring after protection expires will lead to all offenders being blocked, so please use this time to try and arrive at a consensus on how to incorporate this material. Consider WP:RFC or other forms of WP:DR if needed. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:06, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

From the September, 2012, GQ, in a piece entitled, "The Artist Formerly Known as Mos Def" (no link): "I began to fear that Mos Def was being treated as a product, not a person, so I've been going by Yasiin since '99. At first it was just for friends and family, but now I'm declaring it openly." While there may have been dispute last year, this seems pretty decisive unless one wishes to disbelieve GQ's reportage. (Or mine, since I haven't a link.) If the man's been using the name for more than a decade, I remain troubled by WP's refusal to grant him that deference in article name when redirection would prevent any concerns about the article not being readily available. Czrisher (talk) 14:55, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus

Here's my view. The article already has a reliably sourced announcement from Mos Def that he intends to change his name in 2012. Until we have a citable, reliable source that he's doing it earlier, we can't change the article at all. When and if the name change actually occurs and that change can be reliably sourced, then we need to discuss how to incorporate the change into the article.

If we can't reach a consensus on this preliminary part (the when, not the how), then I suppose we'll have to take it to some sort of dispute resolution. Although I was the one who requested protection of the article, I consider myself to be one of the editors warned by Beeblebrox, so I'm not going to battle over changes, although I might request protection again.

In the meantime, I will post a message about this on WP:BLPN to see if we can get some more input on the issues.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:14, 9 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Even if he changes his name, we should not change all previous instances to the new name. Only talking about events from the name change on should use his new name. See Metta World Peace or Lew Alcindor. The change should only happen once it fulfills the WP:COMMONNAME criteria; that is, the sources begin to refer to him by that name, and not just because it has legally happened. hbdragon88 (talk) 06:40, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to the link above about his appearance on the Colbert show, I finally watched the video clip in which he briefly discusses his name change. This was aired on October 5, 2011, and he says he's not using Mo Def "anymore" and that he is using Yasiin Bey as a "nom de plume". I would favor including a statement about that in the article, citing to the video (it's early in the clip), putting Yasiin Bey as an alias in the infobox, and putting YB in the lead as his "professional name" as of October 2011 or Fall 2011. Then, I agree with you that he should be referred to as Mos Def throughout the article until secondary sources start using his new professional name. And, just a quibble, his decision to change his professional name is not a "legal" change, just his decision. Anyone can call themselves anything they like unless they are doing it for fraudulent purposes.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:47, 10 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How are these sources? Note the difference from this article before the Colbert appearance. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:55, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. The question is whether the media is going to continue to call him Yasiin Bey or whether CBS, for example, is doing that because the article is so close to the Colbert interview.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:40, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mos Def is credited as "yasiin bey" (all letters in lower case, as opposed to the other actors' names, written with all letters in upper case (like "COLIN HANKS")) in the latest Dexter episode, and on the Showtime Dexter website (http://www.sho.com/site/dexter/episodes.sho#fbid=RkWall7Rvqi, all letters in lower case as well). 82.123.38.8 (talk) 12:12, 25 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here's an article saying that he has made the change legally and would prefer to be referred to Yasiin Bey from now on. embryomystic (talk) 22:52, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"from now on" - that's the crucial point. Most data is connected to the monicker Mos Def until now. I always wonder why people try to adopt Orwell's concept of rewriting history... ;) 84.63.45.201 (talk) 22:45, 11 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, I'll add my support for Embryomystic and contemn [sic] 84.63.45.201's attempt to equate recognition of new facts with denial of older ones. I'll also restate my absolute bafflement at the idea that what people used to use or prefer to use has any relevance in a debate when we have automatic redirects to point them to the undisputed -- if, apparently, not indisputably -- correct information that the man's name is now Yasiin Bey. I should be quite grateful to anyone who can explain to me the value of making incorrect-but-popular information the primary marker.Czrisher (talk) 15:27, 12 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved, per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIALNAME, which do not currently seem nonsensical. (I don't see what WP:EN has to do with it. If Yasiin Bey were the common name, it would be the common English name.) -- JHunterJ (talk) 11:06, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mos Def → Yasiin Bey

– There is general consensus, covered on the Talk page that the artist himself has officially changed his name and the only reason the article wasn't updated is that he announced before he made the change. Effecting a complete and proper update, however, requires more editing than I can now accomplish, so I resort to this page for confirmation of my opinion and to solicit the work of more industrious editors. Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 06:51, 12 July 2012 (UTC) Czrisher (talk) 13:07, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support NY Times theawl. (Would be hypocritical for me to be proposing moves on WP:RM for French people to be allowed French names and then deny an American muslim the choice of his own name.) In ictu oculi (talk) 17:55, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikipedia doesn't "allow" anything. We use common names in reliable sources. — AjaxSmack 01:12, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:UCN/WP:OFFICIALNAMES/WP:EN ("The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject which is most common in the English language"; Cf. Cat Stevens, who "officially" changed his name over 30 years ago). If this changes the move can be conducted then. — AjaxSmack 01:12, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Put me down for support of his real/chosen/legal/religious name for that one too, and Cassius Clay :) Also put me down to edit some of the nonsense out of WP:UCN. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:27, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose; he's still best known as Mos Def, and that's the name to which his most notable works were credited. Maybe in a year, we will know if the name has stuck. Powers ^T 18:56, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Mos Def is the most commonly used name in English language sources. If Yasiin Bey becomes more widespread in the future, then there's a rationale to move the article. But until then, it should remain at Mos Def.--SGCM (talk) 18:29, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Regarding political views (unresolved)

Hi guys, I find it very troubling that his most direct political and social views are not listed in the section for his views. I added the title of his recent song "Niggas in Poorest," with a description of its anti-capitalist, anti-poverty, pro-Muslim and anti-world-leader theme, with a citation and link to the video, only to have it immediately deleted. What's going on here? We're only allowed to post truths that don't injure his marketers' pockets? To whoever administrates this page, can you please link me to the Wikipedia rule condoning pro-business censorship against facts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.180.120.105 (talk) 22:12, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, is he for or against American Exceptionalism? The article is ambiguous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.169.4.122 (talk) 13:57, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Name change and other edits

So my edit to the intro introducing Mos Def as "Yasiin Bey" rather than his birth name was changed, citing lack of source. Subsequent to posting the source, along with other edits (grammar/wording, plus additions to "Personal life"), another user reverted the edit. I was told to discuss on the Talk Page, so here I am. I am wondering what is the grounds for reverting the entire edit, even the additions to the Personal life section which does not seem controversial at all. I merely added some information about his mother, and clarified some information regarding his marriages and divorce. So what can we talk about to resolve this issue. Mos Def based on all sources does seem to be going by Yasiin Bey, similar to Cat Stevens going by Yusuf Islam. All his current appearances have been under that name. The source I linked, even cited him claiming it to be his legal name. DA1 (talk) 04:53, 18 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The user in question has not responded. I have gone and restored the previous edit in question, citing lack of discussion and opposition to uphold dispute. DA1 (talk) 13:17, 20 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mos Def denied entry into US

Mos Def was attempting to return to the US for a tour, but was denied entry. No reasons were given at this time. Given he is a native of the US and still a citizen, this is abnormal. [1] 24.156.213.29 (talk) 09:40, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

His Song - "Mr Nigga": "But I go over seas and I get over-seized/London, Heathrow, me and my people/They think that illegal's a synonym for negro". --79.223.20.79 (talk) 17:11, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Guardian is reporting that "The rapper, who now lives in South Africa, has decided not to come back to his native US for 'immigration/legal' reasons," not that he was refused entry. Though an earlier version of the story did state that he was denied entry, it has been updated to reflect that there is no reason to believe that he has even attempted to enter the US, let alone been denied entry. Highnumber (talk) 19:04, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Polygamy

I can't find any sources for Mos def being a polygamist. It sounds like he married a second wife before filing for divorce from the first. That falls more into the category of bigamy or just plain fraud (you can't apply for a marriage license without saying you aren't already married). Polygamy is an altogether different thing with different implications and I haven't found anything saying he meets those. Also, I can't find any sources for this aside from random blogs. Can anyone shed some light on this?Bali88 (talk) 16:07, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You may be correct, but if we are to go by logic (which constitutes O.R. either way), his marriage may count as both bigamy and polygamy. Legally speaking, its bigamy since marriage to more than one woman at once is banned (in the US/Canada), but in his religious context polygamy is legal in Islam (and the section does seem to be about his Personal life). So what do users think is appropriate, mention both in some context or remove both? DA1 (talk) 03:05, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He may very well have married her because of religious reasons, but I think we need sources to confirm that. It would be original research to assume that he believes in polygamy because of his religion and considers this a polygamous marriage. I think there are a lot of monogamous muslims. If anyone can find a source, maybe an interview with him where it discusses his reasons for marrying before seeking a divorce. Was he still actively with his first wife when he married the second? :-) Bali88 (talk) 14:00, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Activism

The article (and Google's article excerpt) says he's an activist. But nothing explained. Is he really an activist even if Wikipedia doesn't have any info? I saw one reference (62) saying he demanded something from someone. Needs more info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.77.232.7 (talk) 09:03, 27 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Alana Wyatt

So, is it true that the only reference to a second marriage, that supposedly occurred during his first marriage, is an article in The Star tabloid and a tell-all book by Alana Wyatt? This seems highly unreliable and I think the claim of bigamy should be removed as an unsupported assertion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:56, 2 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Title change

The title of this page should be changed from "Mos Def" to "Yasiin Bey". He has not gone by the Mos Def stage name for several years and has very officially changed his stage name (and, I believe, his real name). He has released albums as Yasiin Bey. I'm not sure what the protocol is for this on Wikipedia, but artists have changed their stage names before and their article has changed title accordingly. See Yusuf Islam's talk page for a very similar debate (strongly in favour of changing that title too). Going to propose the move soon if no-one opposes.146.162.241.245 (talk) 15:18, 17 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"He has released albums as Yasiin Bey." No, he hasn't. 58.250.175.74 (talk) 02:29, 13 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

all of his new features use this name. his insta is yasiin bey. he goes by it on concert tickets. it is his name. this page needs to be moved already. Slamdutch (talk) 09:51, 28 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Lemon demom

Mos def was referenced in the lemon demon song 'my really cop wig'. 86.17.124.241 (talk) 12:03, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 8 December 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Queen of Hearts ❤️ (she/they 🎄 🏳️‍⚧️) 20:24, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mos Def → Yasiin Bey – It has been over a decade since Bey announced that he would no longer be using the Mos Def stage name. In 2012, he said "I began to fear that Mos Def was being treated as a product, not a person, so I've been going by Yasiin since '99. At first it was just for friends and family, but now I'm declaring it openly." Since then, he has exclusively used the name Yasiin Bey as his artist name, with both his acting and musical credits referring to him as Yasiin Bey since 2011. A review of recent reliable sources shows that most outlets now refer to him as Yasiin Bey and only mention Mos Def in parentheses or alongside a "formally known as". Per WP:NAMECHANGES, If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match. gobonobo ⁺ ^c 15:30, 8 December 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 17:04, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

~~Oppose~~ But you didn't bring any reliable sources since the name change. Here are some recent sources that call him "Mos Def": [2][3][4] and here are some that call him "Yasiin Bey": [5][6]. Many sources use both even more than ten years later (e.g., "Yasiin Bey, formerly Mos Def" or "Mos Def, know going by Yasiin Bey", while St. Paul Pioneer Press breaks out the Prince-like "artist formerly known as Mos Def" in its headline), indicating the name change didn't quite take universally and not to the point to upset the WP:STATUSQUO here. Per NAMECHANGES, If, on the other hand, reliable sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name when discussing the article topic in the present day, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well, as described above in "Use commonly recognizable names". – Muboshgu (talk) 16:03, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Muboshgu. You're right that most sources use both names. Even going back just a few years, I'm finding hundreds. I surveyed recent reliable sources, searching for both "Mos Def" and "Yasiin Bey". Here's a rough breakdown of the uses:

only Mos Def [7]
Mos Def, known today as Yasiin Bey [8][9]
Mos Def, also known as Yasiin Bey [10]
Yasiin Bey, also known as Mos Def [11][12][13]
Yasiin Bey, rapper/artist formerly known as Mos Def [14][15]
Yasiin Bey, formerly known as Mos Def [16][17][18][19][20]
Yasiin Bey, who was formally recognized by the Hip Hop world as Mos Def [21][22]
Yasiin Bey, formerly Mos Def [23][24]
Yasiin Bey, then known as Mos Def [25]
only Yasiin Bey [26][27][28][29][30][31][32]

Going through these it became clear that "Mos Def" is very rarely used exclusively, and almost always used parenthetically (formerly, formerly known as, FKA) and then only used once in the article. Almost all sources use both names. When repeated references are made to him, they use Yasiin Bey or Bey. Articles about his albums/career as Mos Def still mention the name of course. Some of the most recent articles are using Yasiin Bey exclusively, especially when referring to his acting or recent music. I don't think NAMECHANGES prescribes that we have to use a former name just because it is mentioned (once) in sources. gobonobo ⁺ ^c 17:52, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Those are some sources, alright. I'm reconsidering. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:30, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Striking oppose, not sure if I support. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:23, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I was expecting to oppose this one, but the sources provided above do appear to indicate that the WP:COMMONNAME has shifted in favor of Yasiin Bey. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:00, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Binksternet (talk) 17:22, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. That's his name. It's not like links to "Mos Def" wouldn't be going to where they should. LilShpeeThatCould (talk) 18:19, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Mos Def / Most Definitely

I assume "Mos Def" is a shortening of "Most Definitely". If such is the case, are there any official sources stating so? It's not vital information but mentioned nowhere in the article and non-native speakers might not know it intuitively. Leavechelseaalone (talk) Leavechelseaalone (talk) 21:02, 9 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Leavechelseaalone Found a ref, added it:[33]. If there's a decent source, the article could use a "In YYYY, he started using the name Mos Def, because..." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:30, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]