Talk:Queer studies

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worldwide perspective?

Can anyone address the is issues of this tag? -- Banjeboi 14:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Excessive Citation

This article has too many citations, impeding its readability (many citations are simply recycled). Please edit and re-cite using accepted practices. Every sentence does not need a citation.

Brown University

By 1995, Brown University had a major called Sexuality & Society, just a synonym for LGBT Studies. I believe it is now combined with Women's Studies and the combined major is called Gender & Sexuality Studies. But here's the point: Brown University may have been the first Ivy League institution to have an LGBT Studies major. I don't have the cites at the moment, but readers should keep this in mind. Brown did it before Yale and Harvard. Recognize! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chumley41 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Biased

This article fails to note or address the controversy surrounding use of the term "queer." The term was introduced and advanced by the more radical elements of the movement, but it never caught on in the GLBT community at large, with the majority resenting it, not embracing it. Many liken it to the African-American adaptation of the "N" word, and reject it. At least one of the movers and shakers who initially pushed adoption of the term later wrote an editorial calling for its abandonment for that reason. Conservatives often accuse our universities of being leftist and too "politically correct." Although I'm not generally sympathetic to that assertion, calling people "queer" might lend some credence to it. There are strong feelings about this, and I'm sure the left-wing element won't appreciate my note here. But I hope it's not removed, and I hope someone with the time, expertise and resources will provide a "Controversy" section in the main article, with adequate footnoting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChicagoLarry (talk • contribs) 16:38, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Larry, do you have some sources for what you've said? If it's in a book or journal, we can use it. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 13:50, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

I well remember an editorial, but don't know if I can find it... will get to looking into it eventually. Thanks. ChicagoLarry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChicagoLarry (talk • contribs) 16:43, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Sound&Fury, there are many published discussions of the reclaiming of "queer" and the declining interest in it, but I just don't have the time to research this; I'm hoping someone else will. At the very least, this article can better acknowledge a controversy about this. For starters, check out the entry for "queer" in Wayne R. Dynes' "Homolexis Glossary." The great (recently deceased) gay activist and writer Paul Varnell has an article about this, here: http://igfculturewatch.com/2000/02/09/whats-wrong-with-queer-2/ I'm confident he wrote about it more than once, and I think it was he (not sure) who wrote a column citing a couple of community leaders who originally embraced "queer" and later abandoned it. It's hard to zero in on a specific article using Google due to the search terms being so commonly used.

Also, there are many Google entries re a Harvey Milk quote, " I am not queer, I am gay." My fear is (and forgive my cynicism, but I've had a long time to develop it!) that the guardians of the word "queer" won't allow this page (and/or related ones) to adequately address this controversy. To suggest we need citations even to acknowledge it is, to me, like saying we'd need a citation to assert that people love sunshine! There are many published discussions of this, if someone has a burden to research it and digest it—and has the time to do it. 24.148.58.206 (talk) 19:08, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

You could look at what universities call their departments that deal with these issues. My university calls it LGBT Studies. I have the LGBT Studies certificate from that university (UW-Madison), and it has always been my experience that "queer" is more politically charged and, in an academic context, deals more with literary/art theory and philosophy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.210.64.209 (talk) 17:44, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Clearer differentiation from queer theory needed

The title says it all. If anyone can assist, that would be good. The Sound and the Fury (talk) 14:39, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

No takers? The Sound and the Fury (talk) 10:17, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

of course no takers, there are no differences CN1 (talk) 09:43, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Tags

I removed a series of large tags from the top of the article; did anyone intend to fix those problems? The Sound and the Fury (talk) 14:52, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

What is Queer Studies?

After reading this entry, I know more about the establishment of LGBT courses and departments in higher education, but very little about Queer Studies beyond the fact that it involves the LGBT experience. What are some of the major themes of this discipline? What about its critical method? What are some foundational texts? What would I learn in a Queer Studies course that I wouldn't learn in a general course about "Sexuality in X"? This should be discussed in the body/text of the entry.

There needs to be more substance beyond "Queer Studies involves psychology, literary theory, sociology,...." kind of statements. This article seems to assume that the reader already knows what Queer Studies is and has done some reading on the topic. It needs to be less about establishing the history of departments and who came first and more outlining the academic discipline because it actually doesn't tell the reader much about what Queer Studies IS. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 10:47, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

I see much of what I'm looking for lies in the Queer Theory entry but I still think that there could be more descriptive content to Queer Studies than what exists right now. Surely Queer Studies involve a plurality of critical perspectives and isn't solely based on Queer Theory. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 10:52, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

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  I agree that there needs to be a further distinction on the difference between queer studies and queer theory, but one simple, quick solution would be to clarify the sentence. Here's the sentence I'm talking about:

"Queer studies is not the same as queer theory, an analytical viewpoint within queer studies (centered on literary studies and philosophy) that challenges the putatively "socially constructed" categories of sexual identity.[2]"

I think it would be beneficial for clarity if I added a "which is" after "queer theory". It makes the sentence easier to read, especially for people who don't actually understand the difference between the two. Let me know if anyone has any further ideas! Tisamerefleshwound (talk) 04:19, 15 September 2016 (UTC)Tisamerefleshwound

Queer Studies at non-U.S. Universities

Since this page is flagged as not having a world view, I am proposing to add a section on queer studies at foreign universities. It is difficult to find credible sources on this subject, but I did find one on Fudan University in Shanghai. I would add a new section to the Queer Studies page called "Queer Studies at non-U.S. Universities" and would begin with a paragraph on Fudan University that reads: In 2003, the School of Public Health University at Fudan University in Shanghai, China opened its first course on homosexuality. The course is called Homosexual Health and Social Sciences and is designed to have a multi-disciplinary approach, with lectures focused on social sciences, humanities, and public health. Only one student was enrolled in 2003, but the course was open to the public and average attendance for that year was 89.9. The enrollment and average attendance in 2004 increased to 2 and 114, respectively.

Let me know if anyone has any suggestions Tisamerefleshwound (talk) 01:49, 26 September 2016 (UTC)Tisamerefleshwound

Here's a substantial contribution to the non-U.S. Universities section:

Fudan University, located in Shanghai, China opened a course on homosexuality and AIDS prevention in 2003 entitled “Homosexual Health Social Sciences.” In an article focusing on this college course, Gao and Gu utilize feedback from participants, detailed interviews with professors and a review of course documents to discuss China’s first course with homosexuality at its core. Their article analyzes the tactics used to create such a course and strategies used to protect the course from adverse reactions in the press. The authors especially take note of the effects of the course on its attendees and the wider gay community in China. The authors note that “Homosexual Health Social Sciences” was described as a “breakthrough” by South China Morning Post and Friends’ Correspondence, a periodical for gay health intervention. The course was developed to be interdisciplinary to cover the social sciences, humanities, and public health. Interdependence on different academic focuses was achieved in the curriculum by covering “Theories of homosexuality and Chinese reality”, “homosexual sub-culture” and “MSM intervention in HIV prevention” in addition to reading literature with gay characters and themes and taking field trips to a gay bar.

The article then describes attendance of this course and its significance by explaining that the official registration in the class was low, with only one student in 2003 and 2 in 2004, but the attendance of non-registered is very high because the course is open to the public. The average attendance in 2003 was 89.9 and rose to 114 in 2004. Surveys were given to attendees of the class and many responded that the class helped them understand the homosexual perspective better. One student stated that “Even if we cannot fully understand these people, we need to respect them. That is the basis for real communication.” Many of the course attendees admitted that the course changed their lives. One Chinese police officer had been hiding his sexuality his entire life stated “The course really enhanced my quality of life…” Another man who had been prescribed treatment for his homosexuality for 30 years heard talk of the course in a newspaper and expressed “This precious news has relieved my heart.”

Gao and Gu also note of the precautions that were taken by the creators of the course to shelter the new class from harsh criticism. The authors describe how the professors were very careful in its beginning to not attract too much attention from mass media. The creators were afraid that if the course got too much negative attention from the Chinese public that it would be canceled. Most coverage on this Fudan University course was in English at the beginning. This phenomenon was explained by one journalist from China Radio International—Homosexuality is very sensitive issue in Chinese culture so by discussing it in English, it is distanced from the conservative Chinese culture.

While researching this I was hit with a language barrier. I think there are more scholarly articles out there on queer studies courses at foreign universities, but they aren't written in English. If other editors that speak foreign languages could search for articles written in other languages, I think they really could contribute a lot to this article. Tisamerefleshwound (talk) 15:59, 14 October 2016 (UTC)Tisamerefleshwound

I think it's rather an excessive amount about this rather small project at Fudan University in the article as it is right now.

I know of one case in Brazil. the "VIII Congresso Internacional de Estudos sobre a Diversidade Sexual e de Gênero" was this year in june in the Federal University of Juiz de Fora -'eighth international congress on studies of sexual diversity and gender'.

--User:Dwarf Kirlston - talk 13:38, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

References

More Articles for New non-U.S. Section

Here are some articles I found that I would like to use to contribute to this article. Check them out and let me know if anyone has any questions or comments.

-unsigned comment left by User:Tisamerefleshwound at 2016-10-27T20:38:48‎

I think ref tags are usually discouraged in Talk pages, I'm not sure. In any case I don't think they're too much of a bother. I would remove them myself, but I'm lazy and I think they're minimally useful - a person would only have to copy/paste to include them in the article--User:Dwarf Kirlston - talk 13:28, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

References

Americanormative bias.

The US universities that offer queer studies are included in the main part of the article. Then there is a section "Queer Studies at non-U.S. Universities". This is insulting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:52DA:3100:F4E8:145B:B8EB:E400 (talk) 22:00, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Controversial move reversed

If you want to move an article in a controversial topic area of the encyclopedia, please get consensus first, before moving. You can request such a move by following the guidelines at WP:RM#CM.

I'll just note out of the box, that I'm opposed to a name change at this time. I could give lots of reasons, but I'll just rest on WP:COMMONNAME, and the ten-to-one difference in usage in academic sources. Cheers, Mathglot (talk) 06:30, 1 November 2019 (UTC)

Splitting proposal

I propose that this article be split into two separate articles, one for Queer studies and one for LGBT studies. Queer studies is a type of LGBT studies, but the two are not identical. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 02:59, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per the terms/topics being the same thing and WP:POVFORK. It's just that "Queer studies" is the WP:Common name. Going by your argument for moving this article and your argument at Talk:Queer erasure#Requested move 3 November 2019, it's clear that you oppose "queer" for article titles. But we go by WP:Common name in these cases, not our personal feelings. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 08:43, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

I don't oppose "queer" titles at all. I certainly wouldn't propose a name change for queer theory or queer of color critique, for example. Queer titles are perfectly appropriate for queer subjects, but not all of LGBT studies and LGBT erasure can be classified by the queer label. If I opposed queer titles, I wouldn't want a separate article on queer anarchism. There is a clear "queer anarchist" ideological tendency that is more specific than LGBT anarchism as a whole, for example. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 09:10, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

When you are arguing "'Queer' is not a universally used umbrella term for LGBTQ people and can be offensive. LGBT is the widely accepted umbrella term on Wikipedia.", like you did at Talk:Queer erasure#Requested move 3 November 2019, I didn't see what else to think. That you suggested the split didn't make me think that you are any more okay with "queer" as a title. It just made me think exactly what WP:POVFORK outlines. Your move of the article was reversed and then you suggested this. Unless you can demonstrate with academic sources that "queer studies" and "LGBT studies" are two different things or that "queer studies" is a subset of "LGBT studies," I won't support a move or split. Furthermore, exactly how, in your view, is it a subset? What other subsets do you think exist? Given how the term queer is used these days, what would anyone be deciding is "queer studies" vs. "LGBT studies"? Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 09:44, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose – partly for reasons stated in the previous section. There are other reasons, but that one should suffice. Mathglot (talk) 07:52, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

• Support. "Queer studies" and "LGBT studies" are not one and the same. "Queer" is for nonbinary, pansexual, asexual, androgynous, etc. -- all the identities beyond Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual (which are sexual orientations), and Transgender (which is boy/girl, man/woman gender identification).1, 2
  The term "queer" remains controversial within homosexual and bisexual communities, and I am personally familiar with trans men and women who take offense at being referred to as "queer".3, 4
  Additionally, "queer" is also used as a self-identification by some heterosexuals to describe their moods, opinions, trendiness, and/or kinkiness.5, 6, 7
  "Queer studies" should not be used as the majority umbrella term in Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not an activist encyclopedia. Pyxis Solitary (yak) 02:12, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

  Everything between your first sentence and penultimate sentence is not relevant to this discussion: this article isn't the Queer article, and isn't the LGBT article. You could raise them at Talk:Queer, though. The claim in your first sentence is relevant, but needs a source. Mathglot (talk) 09:46, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

"The claim in your first sentence is relevant, but needs a source." No it doesn't. My statement is common sense. And I stand by it. Regardless of your attempt to dismiss my input. Pyxis Solitary (yak) 11:07, 10 November 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 12 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus (non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs (talk) 13:12, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

---

Queer studies → LGBT studies – The term "queer studies" is not common (in contrast to Queer theory). Usually we see combinations of lesbian, gay, etc., which we tend to abbreviate to LGBT. Examples see below. Marcocapelle (talk) 22:50, 12 February 2020 (UTC) —Relisting.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:54, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

• Larry Kramer Initiative for Lesbian and Gay Studies at Yale
• Harvard to endow professorship in gay studies
• CCSF Educational Programs: Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Studies Department
• Harvard Gay & Lesbian Caucus: F. O. Matthiessen Visiting Professorship of Gender and Sexuality

Survey

• Oppose per my arguments in the #Splitting proposal section above and per the evidence presented by Mathglot in the #Controversial move reversed section above. "Queer studies" is the WP:Common name. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 03:04, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

• Note that the examples illustrate that queer studies is not the common name. Marcocapelle (talk) 03:31, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

• Marcocapelle, can you please clarify what you mean? Crossroads ^-talk- 04:13, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
• Can you explain how four examples without "Queer studies" prove anything about the frequency of use of that term? Isn't this only half of the equation? Mathglot (talk) 06:52, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose per previous arguments. Four examples "illustrate that queer studies is not the common name" eh? A tough bar to clear, but let's try. Here's what I found. Here are six more than six papers on queer studies from reputable academic journals:

More than four examples with "Queer studies".

A coincidence of desires: Anthropology, queer studies, Indonesia A Companion to Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Queer Studies A queer theory of software studies: software theories, queer studies A research programme for queer studies African American Literature and Queer Studies: The Conundrum of James Baldwin African-American queer studies Anthropomorphism, Normativity, and the Couple: A Queer Studies/Human-Animal Studies Mash-Up Beyond Sodomy: What is Still Queer About Early Modern Queer Studies? Black queer studies Black Queer Studies Black queer studies, freedom, and other human possibilities Black queer studies: A critical anthology Breaking Secrets In The Catalog: Proposing The Black Queer Studies Collection At The University Of Texas At Austin Broadening postcolonial studies/Decolonizing queer studies Brother/outsider: in search of a black gay legacy in James Baldwin's' Giovanni's Room.'(The Gay'90s: Disciplinary and Interdisciplinary Formations in Queer Studies) Butler matters: Judith Butler's impact on feminist and queer studies Butler Matters: Judith Butler's Impact on Feminist and Queer Studies. Margaret Sönser Breen & Warren J. Blumenfeld (eds)(2005) Hampshire, England: Ashgate … Can we teach a transnational Queer Studies? Comparisons worth making: queer studies and comparative literature 'Contemporary peripheries': Queer studies, circulation of knowledge and East/West divide Critical concepts in queer studies and education Critical queer studies: law, film, and fiction in contemporary American culture Daring to marry: Marriage equality activism after Proposition 8 as challenge to the assimilationist/radical binary in queer studies Discipline and desire: feminist politics, queer studies, and new queer anthropology Do women's+ feminist+ men's+ lesbian and gay+ queer studies= gender studies? Doubleweaving two-spirit critiques: Building alliances between native and queer studies Dyke methods: A meditation on queer studies and the gay men who hate it Einführung Gender/Queer Studies Emergences of queer studies in the academy Eve's triangles, or queer studies beside itself Fagging” the countryside?(De)” Queering” rural queer studies Feminism, queer studies, and the sexual politics of Xena: Warrior Princess From Black Quare studies or almost everything I know about queer studies I learned from my grandmother From liberation to transgression and beyond: Gay, lesbian and queer studies at the turn of the twenty-first century Garden-Variety Queer Studies? Gay, lesbian, and queer studies gay/lesbian/queer studies Gender Studies, Queer Studies, Literature Gender Studies, Transgender Studies, Queer Studies Gender/queer studies Gender/Queer Studies Gender/Queer Studies: Eine Einführung Getting Disciplined: What's Trans* About Queer Studies Now? Grand narratives and other narratives in queer studies of today Guest editors' introduction: Central and Eastern European sexualities” in transition”. Reflections on queer studies, academic hegemonies, and critical … Heteronormativität entselbstverständlichen. Zum verunsichernden Potenzial von Queer Studies Historicism and Unhistoricism in Queer Studies Inside the academy and out: Lesbian/gay/queer studies and social action Intelligible/Unintelligible: A two-pronged proposition for queer studies Intersectionality queer studies and hybridity: Methodological frameworks for social research Introduction to the Special Issue: Butler Matters: Judith Butler's Impact on Feminist and Queer Studies Since Gender Trouble Introduction: Queer Studies/English Studies Introduction: Queering Black studies/” quaring” queer studies Just as quare as they want to be: A Review of the Black queer studies in the millennium conference Kuia sutadîzu.[Queer Studies] Marlowe, Queer Studies, and Renaissance Homoeroticism Mobility and privilege within queer studies and university New directions in multiethnic, racial and global queer studies No tea, no shade: New writings in black queer studies Oklahobo: Following Craig Womack's American Indian and Queer Studies On the Evolution of Queer Studies On the Political Implications of Using the Term'Queer,'as in'Queer Politics,'Queer Studies' and 'Queer Pedagogy' One step global, two steps back? Race, gender, and queer studies Panic in The Project Critical Queer Studies and the Matthew Shepard Murder Plum Nelly: New Essays in Black Queer Studies: Introduction Poe and Queer Studies Politiques de la Représentation et de l'Identité-Recherches en Gender, Cultural, Queer Studies Professor Petcock, or how the academy turns on queer studies Psychology meets women's studies, greets black studies, treats queer studies: Teaching diversity and sexuality across disciplines Quare studies, or (almost) everything I know about queer studies I learned from my grandmother Queer denken: gegen die Ordnung der Sexualität:(Queer studies) Queer sexualities: staking out new territories in queer studies Queer studies Queer Studies and Critical Masculinity Studies in Feminist Biblical Studies Queer studies and religion Queer studies and religion in contemporary Africa: decolonizing, post-secular moves Queer Studies and the Crises of Capitalism Queer studies and the job market: Three perspectives Queer Studies I: An examination of the first eleven studies of sexual orientation bias by the legal profession Queer Studies II: Some Refelctions on the Study of Sexual Orientation Bias in the Legal Profession Queer studies in education Queer Studies in France QUEER STUDIES IN QUEER TIMES: Conference Review of “Rethinking Sex,” University of Pennsylvania, March 4–6, 2009 Queer studies in the house of anthropology Queer Studies under Ethnography's Sign Queer studies, materialism, and crisis: A roundtable discussion Queer Studies/African Studies: An (Im) possible Transaction? Queer Studies: A Lesbian Queer studies: A lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender anthology Queer studies: an interdisciplinary reader Queer studies: beyond binaries Queer Studies: eine Einführung Queer studies: in search of a discipline Queer studies: methodological approaches Queer Studies: Methodological Approaches. Follow Up Queer studies: where but here? Queer Techne: Two Theses on Methodology and Queer Studies 1 Queer theory and queer studies Queer Theory/Queer Studies: Ein enzyklopädischer Eintrag Queering the countryside: New frontiers in rural queer studies Queering the Language? A Roundtable on Jargon in Queer Studies RAW:" Raunchy Asian Women" and resistance to queer studies in the Asian Pacific American studies classroom Reading sexualities: Hermeneutic theory and the future of queer studies Reflections on queer studies and queer pedagogy Reflections, riffs and remembrances: The black queer studies in the millennium conference (2000) Relations between Queer Studies and Cultural Studies Re-placing queer studies: reflections on the Queer Matters conference (King's College, London, May 2004) (Re) positioning (Asian) queer studies Rethinking colonial discourse analysis and queer studies Review of Queer Studies An Interdisciplinary Reader Roundtable discussion: what is the future of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer studies in religion? Straight black studies: On African American studies, James Baldwin, and black queer studies Teaching Intersex Issues: A Guide for Teachers in Women's, Gender and Queer Studies Teaching Transnationally: Queer Studies and Imperialist Legacies in Monique Truong's The Book of Salt The anti-social turn in queer studies The Gay'90s: Disciplinary and interdisciplinary formations in queer studies The new African American studies: Blackening queer studies and sexing black studies The new unhistoricism in queer studies The origins of “Queer Studies” in postwar Japan The roguish future of queer studies The Routledge queer studies reader Theory in Motion: A Review of the Black Queer Studies in the Millennium Conference There's No Place like" Home": Mining the Theoretical Terrain of Black Women's Studies, Black Queer Studies and Black Studies. Through queers' eyes: Critical educational ethnography in queer studies Transatlantic dialogues and identity politics: theorising bilateral silences in the genesis and future of queer studies Understanding music and sexuality through ethnography: dialogues between queer studies and music Unfinished Business: The (Sin) field of Early Modern Queer Studies Uses of the Erotic for Teaching Queer Studies What's queer about queer studies now? What's the difference? Bringing particularity to queer studies of transgender Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Witch? Queer Studies in American Literature World Enough: Sex and Time in Recent Queer Studies (Based on a targeted search in Google Scholar for the term "queer studies". Non-exhaustive list, I quit after I had enough.)

Complete bibliographic details available upon request. Mathglot (talk) 06:27, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose per above, no need to change. Gleeanon409 (talk) 12:09, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
• Support for now, based on what I said below. Crossroads ^-talk- 14:19, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

  You still need to respond to something like this, though. Data, please. Mathglot (talk) 20:31, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

  See this Ngram, counting up "lesbian studies", "gay studies", etc, including "LGBT studies". These together do beat "queer studies". Now, true, if you mentally extrapolate from 2008, you can imagine that queer studies could surpass the others; it may, but that should not be assumed. Crossroads ^-talk- 05:20, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

  Not sure that comparison is a valid one. I think it's okay to sum the L, the G, the B, and the T; but if to that sum you also add the LGBT figure as well, it seems you have doubled the real tally, and you can't subdivide 'queer' in the same way to make an apples and apples comparison. Mathglot (talk) 08:15, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Threaded discussion

I find the arguments supporting the Rfc statement at the top confusing. The Rfc move request itself, requests a change from Queer studies to LGBT studies. Okay, so far, so good. The stated reason for the move, is this:

The term "queer studies" is not common (in contrast to Queer theory).

Huh?? Wait a second, are we proposing a rename of this article to Queer theory now? What possible relevance does the frequency of Queer theory have to this Rfc? Please stick to arguing about the current article title, and the proposed new title; argumentation about third choices that have nothing to do with this Rfc, are entirely irrelevant. Following that, we have:

Usually we see combinations of lesbian, gay, etc., which we tend to abbreviate to LGBT.

What is being claimed here? that the words lesbian and gay are common words? That they are more common than queer? If so, then I agree completely. But so what? How does this support your argument? Finally, we have the four examples, none of which contain the term Queer studies. I agree, they don't contain the term. And?

There is one assertion in the Rfc statement that claims to support it, namely this one:

Note that the examples illustrate that queer studies is not the common name.

However, this claim is unsupported by any evidence; the four examples do not prove anything of the kind. The WP:BURDEN is on the proposer to demonstrate by some kind of supportable evidence, that a change in title is warranted. This Rfc seems to be a case of WP:IJDLI, with not a scrap of evidence to support it. Perhaps I am mistaken. Perhaps evidence can be marshalled, to demonstrate that "LGBT studies" is indeed the WP:COMMONNAME. Please show it to us. Mathglot (talk) 07:46, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Mathglot, could you read this source and see what you think? [1] It says that LGBT studies is the broader term, with queer studies as a subset of that which is more politically focused and based on postmodernism. It also states that it is rare for programs to include queer in the title. That seems to align with this source, [2] already in the article.

I'm not convinced a simple search for each phrase will do it. There may be many variants such as "lesbian studies", "gay studies", "gay and lesbian studies", "LGBT+ studies", and so forth, which would support "LGBT studies". I think we need to look at how academic sources like the ones I linked to define each term and what they say.

Also, larger fields don't typically put their name in the titles of their papers. Most research in, say, psychology doesn't have "psychology" in the title. And especially so in this field, where most works will be about the L, G, B, or T. Crossroads ^-talk- 14:17, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

@Crossroads:, thanks for your incisive comment. I'm going to be away for some weeks with intermittent access, so I'm not sure how much more I can help. Your questions and comment ("not convinced...") actually hit the nail on the head (very diplomatically). The collapsed list above based on a targeted search that looks for what it is trying to prove, actually proves nothing (other than that the article name term exists, and is not rare)—good for you for spotting that—and was kind of a backhanded comment about the Rfc statement with its four examples, which prove less than nothing. (Apologies if that list seemed harsh; I sometimes flip out when I see arguments with sweeping statements asserting proof of something which so obviously are based on nothing but opinion.) All of your comments are valid; my main underlying point was that search tests to determine commonname have to be constructed neutrally and more carefully, and the results analyzed properly, which sounds like exactly what you are proposing. Note that 'queer theory' took off around 1990, and you can get a general sort of impression of the advance of queer and lgbt in the 90s and afterward but the top ten postposition noun colocations don't match up very well with the colocations for LGBT. This search may be a start and is indicative with queer studies still dwarfing LGBT studies, but not a proof. I won't be able to contribute much further to this for right now, but your comment shows you are well-placed to do that; hope you can hold down the fort. As far as that one source and its comment about rareness, I would just say that DUE would apply here as elsewhere, but also that the copyright was 2005, there's no indication how they came up with that, and ngrams data ends in 2008, and all that has to be taken into consideration. Good luck! Mathglot (talk) 20:23, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

That book source that Crossroads pointed to is from 2005. Queer as a neutral term, without being used as a slur, has become significantly more common since then. A lot of things have changed so much since then. I think that Mathglot's data very much indicates that "queer studies" is the common name. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 21:32, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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