Talk:Carnival

greasy / fat Tuesday

Just a note for anyone who might consider adding alternative translations of "Fat Tuesday": for those not familiar with the US "Mardi Gras", the usual translation in the States is "Fat Tuesday" and that is also an alternative name for the festival. I've ventured the opinion that the "gras" could actually be better translated literally as "greasy" or "fatty", but this seems to be a matter of disagreement. My idea is that "gras", which can mean "fatty" (as in "cheveux gras" seen on bottles of shampoo for greasy hair), refers to the butter and lard people ate on that day, before giving it up, thus "fatty Tuesday". However, other people believe that "gras", which can mean "overweight", refers to the weight people put on eating that food, thus "overweight Tuesday". To me this seems only a matter of opinion, but as the name "Fat Tuesday" is so common, I'm being told my opinion, although a few others share it, is irrelevant and unhelpful and should not be added to the page. As I don't know if I'm right and it's just an alternative idea, I'm removing it, but I thought I'd write a note here in case anyone else had the same idea. Saintswithin 10:23, 7 November 2004 (UTC)

Hello. In Austrian/German/Swiss traditional cooking there is a strong usage of pastry fried in lard. As eating meat in the old days was a privilege and only happend a few times a year, people, in the country cooking often enriched their wheat and vegetable dishes with lard, either by frying forms of dough in it (German Austrian Krapfen - Doughnuts) or "lardening soups". I think it has all to do with eating. They needed to prepare for Lent as fasting was monitored by the clerik and done in a much more serious way than today. Fat tuesday - fat (rich) dishes. Also: It could express wealth or plentifulness - according to traditions before Lent. Bernhard Baumgartner 12:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

German-speaking countries

I am sorry, I have ballsed it up with my well-meant "German-speaking countries" intervention. The trouble is that the "Germany" bit wanders off (quite rightly) into Austria and Switzerland, so that title wasn't right. But this now clashes with the fact that Austria also has its own section. To make sense of this requires more rewriting than I can do right now, but just to revert to "Germany" would be a bit silly too. Can some nice person have a look at this please??? Sorry! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.37.199.199 (talk • contribs) 12:19, 26 July 2005

Incorrect spelling?

"Carnival" is a funfair. The celebratory season before Lent is "Carnaval". Can somebody who knows how, fix this or add a "see carnival" under a heading for the proper spelling. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.200.116.204 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 20 February 2006.

Erm, sorry no, that is just wrong. As any and every dictionary will tell you [1]. -- Solipsist 22:57, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Look in a Portuguese dictionary...it is spelled "Carnaval" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.29.227.4 (talk) 15:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Portuguese is also another language. Perhaps that discrepancy can be noted under Portugual's heading? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vpw (talk • contribs) 09:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

In Malta and the UK it is Carnival for sure. It's also Karnival in Maltese. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.188.46.254 (talk) 08:50, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, in English it's "Carnival," changing the spelling to match that of another language is a bad idea. In German it's "Karneval," so I think keep the English spelling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.99.193.99 (talk) 22:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I think using "Carnaval" in a carnival's name is okay, but in the main article it probably should be "carnival" since the article is in English.

But it should be noted that there are several carnivals in English-speaking countries, that are inspired by Brazilian Carnival, that purposefully use "Carnaval" instead of "Carnival" to distinguish that that are inspired by Brazilian Carnival and not Caribbean Carnival or European Carnival. In those situations, the spelling indicates the origin of the traditions surrounding the carnival. Ones with "Carnival" in their name frequently trace their roots to Trinidad or Europe Carnivals. Ones with "Carnaval" frequently trace their roots back to Rio Carnival. Example: Carnaval Brasileiro in Austin, Texas, San Diego Brazil Carnaval, Carnaval Miami and Carnaval San Francisco. [2] --WisTex (talk) 02:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Uruguay

Info on Uruguay's carnival and a link to the murga page on wikipedia should be added but I don't know how to do that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.67.17.9 (talk) 19:43, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

History of Carnaval

Hi guys but i suggest the editors of this page to reconsider the history, of the carnaval. According to many ancient sources from Greece you can see that the tradition of Carnaval, predates the Roman.,Also you may find many informations if you search for the celebrations of Dyonissus, or Bacchus for those hwo prefer the Roman equivalent, today some villages in Greece still keep the tradition of the Dyonnisus celebrations evrey spring. PS: The Carnaval of Patra is the largest Carnaval in Europe and also one of the Largest in the world. I think it is a shame not to mention it. Alexander D. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.46.12.196 (talk • contribs) 12:56, 6 March 2006

Largest carnival party

The largest people concentration during the carnival party is actually the "Galo da madrugada" wich happens in the city of Recife, Pernambuco state, Brazil.

The current text is unfortunate as it doesn't mention Olinda (Pernambuco State, Brazil) and Ouro Preto (Minas Gerais State, Brazil), where the festivals presents a mixture of european, african, indian and arab culture, with roots far deeper than Salvador´s (Bahia State, Brazil) and Rio de Janeiro (Rio de Janeiro State, Brazil) currently have (Bahia carnival traditions where largely "built" in the XX century, but they have a large power in the media/politics, and so are able to present themselves with a facade of legitimacy, wich the rebellious Pernambuco state can´t afford). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.164.173.39 (talk) 13:24, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Canada

Caribana in Toronto, Canada is a huge event and should be added if someone has the inclination. See: http://www.caribana.com/ . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.124.186 (talk) 01:51, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The website above is incorrect and has no affilation to the Toronto Caribbean Carnival - Caribana. The official website, that provides accurate,and updated information is: http://www.caribanafestival.com .Jamilagriffith 15:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Denmark

On 30 October 2005 a section about the carnival in Aalborg, Denmark was added to the article. On 27 May 2006 I removed the section because:

• the text consisted of copy-pasted excerpts from an article in the May 2002 issue of "Northern Light", an online news magazine in English from Aalborg University;
• it was un-encyclopedic, rather like sales copy from the local tourist office, and un-wikified;
• it was disproportionately long.

--Bwiki 23:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Shrovetide

I'm removing the section on the eitology of the word Carnival from this section as it is covered in the first section of the article and the language is a bit POV claiming the origin to be the latin and discounting all other interpretations. --Lepeu1999 18:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

After reading the entire article, I note Shrovetide is covered as a subsection to the Celebrations around the world page. The Shrovetide section appears to have been lifted from another publication or site. Is there a need for both? It appears to me the section in the celebrations around the world is both easier to read and more NPOV. I'm considering removing the Shrovetide section but would love to hear from others before doing so. --Lepeu1999 18:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Merge abadá here?

The article abadá, about a shirt worn at carnivals so you can join a specific music group's trail, is very short and not informative. IMO it would be better to merge that article here. It is not easy to see where in the article it should be put. Overall the carnival article contains little information on the music, probably a little section on music bands in carnevals would be the right place. // Habj 06:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Abadas are trousers worn for capoeira, not shirts worn in carnival — Preceding unsigned comment added by Retirededitor12 (talk • contribs) 20:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Nowadays, ABADAs are used in Carnival here in Brazil, mostly Bahian style carnival, where people usually follow huge semi-trucks addapted to hold a walking stage, and bands performing on top of it. Even though I agree abada is a capoeira term, its now being used in carnival parades in Brazil (with more colorful outfits and looks than those traditionally used in capoeira). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.44.9.66 (talk) 20:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

NPOV Violation

The NPOV policy is being violated in the section about Brazil, when it talks about Pernanbuco's carnival. It should be rewritten to be neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.139.184.113 (talk) 15:19, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

AGREED. i agree about the npov policy. ALSO: Italy, as a catholic country, has a bunch of carnavals! carnaval is popular there and it should be included in the article. so should Toronto in Canada and of course the province of Quebec in Canada, esp. the city in the province called Montreal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.118.72 (talk) 00:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Cologne carnival?

What about Cologne carnival or German carnival in general. It's THE BIGGEST one in whole Europe and after Brazil the second one in the world. And not mentioned in here? You must kidding me, right? There is a separate article about Cologne carnival though, but you must add a link or something. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.52.180.133 (talk) 19:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

Links

Where can one add/suggest a link concerning carnival photos/video? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.188.46.254 (talk) 08:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Italian carnival

Actually Italy is full of different carnivals...in the article sounds like the only carnival in Italy is the one in Venice... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.6.4.228 (talk) 19:20, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

An important carnival is missing, the one of Viareggio... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.4.175.47 (talk) 00:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

"Germany"-section blank / deleted

Following the history of this article, there was a section about Germany. Some weeks ago, that section contained a description of what types of carnival are celebrated in Germany; then, the section was blank (=the content was deleted, but the heading still remained). Now (not until some minutes ago), the whole section is deleted. Can anybody please so kind as to explain why? Thankyou. Thomasnimmesgern 03:01, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

It seems that a vandal excised it, and whoever reverted it forgot to put it back: the blanking and the restoral sort of. I'll put it back. V-Man737 00:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Heh, looks like it got done already... (WTF? Maybe I needed to purge my cache...) [3] V-Man737 00:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Carnival Associations on wikipedia

Would it be a bad idea to let people compile a list of different carnival associations that exist in different regions of the planet, and have an article on every association, explaining about the founding of the group, the themes they incorporated in the festivities throughout the years, prizes won, etc etc? Or maybe only a list of all the groups in different regions with offsite links to their own homepages, to get in contact with or sneak a peak at like-minded people all around the world?

TheArowana 22:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Where does Mexico belong?

Mexico is currently listed in both the North America and Central America categories. This is redundant. ;-) --Disparity 21:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Mexico belongs to both North America and Latin America. The distinction should be North America and South America, or Anglo America and Latin America. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.248.45.1 (talk) 19:48, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Still... is it North or Central AMERICA? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.44.9.66 (talk) 20:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

If you really want to see a Mexican get angry, tell him Mexico belongs to Central America Epachamo (talk) 02:42, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Mexico is undoubtedly part of North America. Moonraker (talk) 00:00, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Bridgewater

The England section refers to the West Country carnivals and specifically the Bridgewater carnival. While these are called carnivals, they are neither held during the run up to Lent, nor are they based on the West Indian carnival tradition, as the Notting Hill celebration is. Are they relevant to this page at all? Rojomoke 23:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I've trimmed that section way back for being off-topic. Thanks for the suggestion. ✤ JonHarder ^talk 13:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

How strange to remove Bridgwater material (no central "e" by the way)! Since the Bridgwater carnival is called a Carnival, what article do you imagine the reader will look up to read about Bridgwater Carnival. Surely they will look up the article called Carnival and will be puzzled to find nothing at all under "England".

Is it compulsory for a Carnival to be held before Lent? NO! Is it compulsory for a Carnival to be based on West Indian tradition? NO! To ignore a Carnival tradition that doesn’t fit in the “box” of your choosing is wrong.

Of course, the first paragraph of the article will have to point out that not all Carnivals are pre-Lent or in a particular tradition. I’ll not make the changes until I read any comments on my comments. - Adrian Pingstone 14:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

My preference is to maintain the more narrow definition for this article and use Carnival (disambiguation) to point readers to other meanings. I noticed that West Country Carnival wasn't listed there and added it. ✤ JonHarder ^talk 17:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't know there was an article for West Country Carnival so now I'm quite happy for the main Carnival article not to mention Bridgwater - Adrian Pingstone 21:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

New image

Image:Carnivalx.JPG, recently added, looks more like a funfair to me. Any opinions? — mholland (talk) 01:20, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Agree. It certainly has nothing do with "carnival" in the sense of this article. Nposs 03:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

NPOV Violations (several)

There are many NPOV violations in this article:

1) Carnival is not celebrated by Christians because they are Christians; it is celebrated against the directives established by any Christian Church (which makes it Antichristian).

2) "The world's largest carnival celebration" is most likely not in "Salvador, BA, Brazil".

3) Even if "The world's largest carnival celebration" is in "Salvador, BA, Brazil" the correct place to mention this would be under the section for Brazil or in the main article for "Brazilian Carnival".

4) Carnival in Brazil is celebrated by unfaithful Christians all over the country, there really is no concentrated celebration. Therefore, the celebrations in Rio de Janeiro, Salvador and Pernambuco are merely a few examples.

5) There are two televised competition Carnival events in Brazil, they take place in Brazil's two major cities, São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro in the so called "Sambódromo"s (Sambadromes) of each city (respectively "Sambódromo do Anhembi" and "Sambódromo da Marquês de Sapucaí") and are transmitted by Brazil's number one TV station, Globo. In both events organizations called samba-schools", with a few thousand people each, compete among themselves, subject to a committee of referees. There is an additional winning celebration that takes place during the first weekend of Lent.

6) The politician "Leonel Brizola", of the PDT party, is not really that important in this context and should be omitted from the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bowzee (talk • contribs) 20:12, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

2007/7/17: As a longtime student of Brazil and its Carnaval I agree with #2 that Salvador is likely not larger than the monstrous events in Rio. Was surprised to see the city singled out that way.

-> Must disagree with the conclusion on #1 though. Not enough cause to describe it as "anti-Christian" (or whatever chosen adjective) inasmuch as Christianity -the RC flavour anyway, which is what's involved here- has always incorporated variants and pagan cognate traditions (see for example Haiti and Cuba as well as Brasil, blending Yoruba with Xtian, etc). Therefore #4 above is, linguistically, also invalid in the absence of a basis for generalising Carnavalgoers as "unfaithful". They may or may not be firmly devoted to Catholicism- the comparison is, ultimately, irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.200.213 (talk) 20:46, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

the problem is of category. Carnival is NOT a western Christian festive season. It is a cultural event with more or less heavy religious overtones and underpinnings. The "religion" us usually Catholicism, but even that is ambiguous in a context like Brazil. The word "carnival" can mean a religious event or a totally secular event and anywhere in between. The whole article suffers from ambiguity and should be divided into "religious sense" and "cultural sense". Richardson mcphillips (talk) 02:24, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Inconsistency between Carnival of Venice main article and text here

In the main article it refers to the revival of the Venice Carnival after the opening of a mask shop in the 1980s. Here, however, it refers to the opening of the mask shop in the 1970s. According to http://www.visitvenice.co.uk/venice-carnival.html people decided to revive the tradition in 1979. So maybe the revival started in the 1970s (just) but perhaps the shop opened in the 1980s. Could someone check this and amend the article accordingly. Ma1cius 11:13, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Carnival Champions in Rio de Janeiro?

I'd like to see such a list of the winning samba schools back to the 80s at least, having just read Alva Guillhermoprieto's 1991 book (Samba), which follows Mangueira's 1988 bid for a tri-campeão (threepeat). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.41.207 (talk) 18:38, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

"Carnivale"?

Does this spelling variant have any precedent, or it just a misspelling? Bitbut —Preceding comment was added at 01:58, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Incomplete Information

While I appreciate the link to Bakhtin, shouldn't the social implications of carnival be addressed here? It's not just a big party, after all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.108.81.31 (talk) 15:03, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Etymology

In the Etymology section, the 'farewell to meat' argument is corroborated through the greek name of Carnival, "Αποκρεώ" |apokreo| which means 'away from meat' This is a simple observation, but I wonder if it falls under original research. Should I add it in the article?--Cafeeine (talk) 12:59, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Folk etymology is not what's being stated here. It's a change from an unfamiliar - usually - foreign word to a similar sounding familiar one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.121.109.247 (talk) 12:41, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Fasching

What is wrong with the sentence about Fasching? Arpingstone removed it because it wouldn't make sense. Why? --78.51.100.99 (talk) 21:33, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

I just removed vandalism and within 1 minute, a nearby section was vandalized in the same manner. Can we protect this page?

Read the section on India

The DarkArcher was here 00:42, 5 May 2008 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DarkArcher (talk • contribs)

Two vandalisms doesn't really warrant protection rasadam (talk) 05:17, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Venice links

Near the beginning of Carnival there is a link to the nonexistant article Carnaval of Venice -- then later in the same article it links to Carnival of Venice which does exist. I don't know which is the correct spelling, but surely that first dead-end link is not helpful to anyone. BananaSlug (talk) 14:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Uruguayan carnival history

There are useful links on the history of Uruguayan Carnival at the Carnaval del Futuro website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Izmir2 (talk • contribs) 06:50, 13 March 2009 (UTC) Oops!----Izmir2 (talk) 17:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Italy (duplication)

I removed the following from the article and bring it here for discussion:

Carnival has very old origins. It is a festival that celebrates the passage from winter into spring, a time when seemingly anything is possible, including the illusion where the most humble of classes become the most powerful by wearing masks on their faces. The word carnival (Carnevale) comes from the Latin carnem levare (literally meaning "taking the meat away"), an expression used in the Middle Ages to mark the beginning of the Lenten fast, a time of the year during which one was not allowed to eat meat (carne in Latin). But like many other festivals, it derives from the ancient Roman cult of Saturnalia, a pagan rites of fertility in honour of the god Saturn. During those celebrations everything was allowed, even disguising and change of rules. Such celebrations were modified substantially because of their magic and ritual nature with the advent of Christianity, but they still were tolerated by the clergy. During the 15th and 16th century some traditions were recaptured and the use of masks and public fancies spread all over the country.

The Venice Carnival is the largest and most important festival in Venice, an appreciated cocktail of tradition, entertainment, history and transgression in a unique city, a festival that attracts thousands of people from around the world each year. The official start of the Venice Carnival dates back to 1296, when the Senate of the Republic made the Carnival official with an edict declaring the day before Lent a public holiday. After an interruption lasting almost two centuries, the tradition of Carnival was rediscovered by the Municipality in 1980 and since then it has taken place every year with success.

A program rich with opportunities and fun for all ages, from the Contest for the best mask for children in St. Mark's Square, to the musical programs provided by All Music in Santa Margherita and the Medieval and seventh-century music Concerts in Campo San Barnaba, to the reenactment of historical parades at St. Mark.

The Carnival of Massafra is considered one of the more important of the Apulia. This because, differently from most other carnivals, the majority of the masked course is not barred, and all the citizens can participate directly to the animation and the fun, stimulated from the choreographies and the scenography of the wagons and the allegorical groups that parade along the main course of the country.

'Semel in anno licet insanire', 'madness is permissible once a year' - this ancient Roman saying seems particularly suitable for Fano, the home of one of the most famous carnivals in Italy. There are more than a month of festivities, when the streets of the city and its inhabitants abandon their daily routines and throw themselves into a flurry of festivity and processions. The Fano Carnival takes place with no expense spared and everyone joins in the festive atmosphere with gay abandon. It began in medieval times, or more accurately, so the story goes, on the occasion of the reconciliation between two respectable families of the time, the Del Cassero and the Da Carignano.

But history and tradition are not the only important characteristics of the Carnival which tens of thousands of people come to see. The Fano Carnival is the world's "sweetest" carnival and the only one where you can watch and take part in a no-holes-barred battle fought with chocolates! Hundreds of kilos of sweets, caramels and chocolates are showered from allegorical floats onto the crowds of spectators, who join in, young and old alike, throwing their "ammunition" at each other and even as far as the crowds on the opposite side of the procession. The procession ends with a magnificent show of illuminations, a festival of light and colour along approximately two kilometres, creating a fantasy of extraordinary shadows. In the words of the Fano Carnival slogan: "bello da vedere, dolce da gustare", or "beautiful to see, sweet to taste".

The Carnival also acts as a centre for cultural and popular tradition. The Papièr Mâche School teaches youngsters the art of working with papièr mâche while the city has a rich popular music heritage - the "Musica Arabita" band, described by writers such as Guido Piovene and Curzio Malaparte, has been playing since 1922 using bizarre improvised instruments created from every sort of object.

In the year 2000, the city of Fano abolished entrance fees, allowing everyone to take part in the Carnival free of charge and thus once again making it a celebration by the people for the people. Also the grand evening masked veglione transforms the entire old town centre into a place of festivity. Added to this are two other major traditional events on Shrove Tuesday and Thursday which follow the same guiding principles and have brought unprecedented success to the whole Carnival.

For starters, there is already a section for Italy, which is divided into subsections by city. Second, this is terribly written, unorganized, not formatted properly, etc. Fixing it would require a great deal of effort, and is probably not worth it. Any thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 23:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The carnival year

Saturn (mythology) mentions the carnival year, yet the present article makes no mention of this phrase. Should it not? __meco (talk) 10:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Timing?

From the first paragraph: "a festive season which occurs immediately before Christmas; the main events are usually during July and February." IANAChristian, but I believe Christmas is at the end of December. So, somehow the main events of a late-December season occur 2 and 6 months later? This makes no sense, especially as Lent is in January or February. Something's off here. ~Nemo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.54.249.152 (talk) 07:32, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, this is strange. The article said "before Lent" until 173.11.56.105 changed it on 28 Jan 2010 to say "before Christmas". This change appears to be isolated -- i.e. not in the context of a lengthy explanation -- and was not preceded by discussion here. No one appears to have changed the article that way before, so I am ascribing the change to 173.11.56.105's isolated POV (as opposed to consensus) and reverting it. SrAtoz (talk) 13:04, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Break into separate articles

This article is already too big. We should split it into separate articles. This article should have short paragraphs for each country, and a main article link like {{mainarticle|Brazilian Carnival}} linking to the detailed article for each country. Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 10:44, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

duplication

I've seen that the article "Carnival" and the article "Mardi Gras" contain the same informations, showing the most famous carnivals in the world: shouldn't we organize that to avoid duplications? Lele giannoni (talk) 13:48, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Karneval

i notice Karneval redirects here....i was wondering if i could remove the redirect and make Karneval (manga) into just Karneval. Is it ok? i mean Karneval article is the only article i can see with that name.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:01, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Carnival and Primeval Chaos

Old text: Carnival is an archaic tradition connected to agricultural and seasonal cycles of every year. It has a purifying significance as well. The primeval cosmic chaos rules the world, time is upset, social ties and social hierarchies are broken , so every kind of transgression is allowed . Supernatural beings and souls come to earth to meet the living beings. Every barrier between the living and the dead is knocked down because the primeval chaos lives again and the historical period died out. A lot of masks take up the images of supernatural beings to exorcize these beings.

At the end the ceremony of the "funeral" of Carnival - a purifying ritual - takes place.

On this occasion a ritual "will" is often read and a puppet or another image - symbol of "King Carnival " - is burnt , drowned or beheaded. The ritual "funeral" symbolizes the restoration of the cosmic order and the regeneration of time, that 's a " new Creation ", a "new Cosmogony" ( see the works " The Myth of the Eternal Return " , chapter II , and the " Traité d ‘ Histoire des Religions " , chapter XI, by Mircea Eliade ; “ The Golden Bough ” by James George Frazer )."

I removed the above paragraph from the History section. I think the points about masks and the social hierarchy are interesting in understanding non-Lentian carnivals, but I don't know if they're accurate in enough cases that they can be written as a general point about carnivals. The rest of it reads strangely, had formatting and citation issues, and referenced some pretty esoteric concepts - primeval cosmic chaos, regeneration of time, etc - that it was best to just strike it and reintegrate the worthwhile points as appropriate. 24.0.209.76 (talk) 05:45, 3 February 2011 (UTC) --anon

Rio de Janeiro - The Biggest Carnival in the World (2 million peaple per day) on the Guinness World Records

The carnival in Salvador is not the "biggest carnival of the world". According the Guinness World Records 2010, the carnival in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, is the largest carnival in the world, attracting more than two million people per day and 300,000 tourists. http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_O-carnaval-de-Rio-de-Janeiro-o-maior-carnaval-do-mundo/blog/1852274/7691.html

The carnival in Salvador was the largest in the world in 2004/2005, but the Rio's Carnival returned to being the largest carnival. The Rio Carnival is considered the world's most famous too. Billy joy (talk) 16:31, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

File:Candombe1870-Uruguay.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Puerto Rico is missing

There is at least one well-known carnival in Puerto Rico: Carnaval de Ponce which has its own Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnaval_de_Ponce Also available in Spanish

Luisr (talk) 19:16, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Kukeri??

Isn't the UNESCO heritage festival "Kukeri" part of the "Carnivals"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nix1129 (talk • contribs) 13:02, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Carnivàle (TV series)

"Carnivale" currently redirects here. While this spelling may exist in non-US-English languages, in US English it's more likely to be a reference to Carnivàle, the TV series. I recommend changing the redirect. Morfusmax (talk) 17:15, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

November Karneval

Some mention might be made of celebrations, particularly in Germany and the Netherlands, of the November celebrations which begin on St. Martin's day, particularly given the apparently long-lasting reference to this page within the Holidays and Observances section for November 11. Many years ago I traveled in that area on the late fall and dimly remember some kind of late harvest celebrations, which then I thought just stretched back from the Christmas markets but which now seem to date back much longer on their own.Jweaver28 (talk) 12:22, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

The upper Rhineland is protestant

In one paragraph this article says: "In Rhineland in 1823, the first modern Carnival parade took place in Cologne, Germany.[33] The upper Rhineland is mostly Protestant, as is most of Northern Germany and Northern Europe. Carneval, (Fasching or Fastnacht in Germany) mixed pagan traditions with Christian traditions. Pre-Lenten celebrations featured parades, costumes and masks to endure Lent's withdrawal from worldly pleasures." These words are extremly misleading. In fact the Rhineland is an (historically) extremely catholic area (see even here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland). Especially, the city of Cologne is overwhelmingly catholic. What is true, is that Fasching/Fastnacht is rather a Protestant word to use for carnival. However, these traditions are more common in Southern Germany and Switzerland, where Protestants outnumber Catholics. In that sense, mentioning protestants here, does not make any sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Just me in personal (talk • contribs) 11:52, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Nov 11 in German-speaking Europe?

This statement isn't sourced, and is prima facie ridiculous, especially with the precision of "often at 11:11 a.m." Unless supported, should be deleted. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 02:27, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

This is true: the traditional (probably since 19th century "parades" in Rhenish Carnival) season start is at Nov 11th at 11:11 with mostly in-door celebrations (think of comedy shows) of Carnival Associations. Between this date and the Thursday before Ash Wednesday mostly such shows take place, made by carnival groups with fixed memberships for the public to attend, but generally not in the Christmas/New Year time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Christoph Franzen (talk • contribs) 21:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC) I live there, I could give you tons of printed sources you probably wouldn't understand because of the language. CHF (talk) 21:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Merge from Slavic carnival

I think Slavic carnival should be merged here. Thoughts? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 17:51, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

• Do not merge. There is a lot of information, there are interwiki. --Лобачев Владимир (talk) 10:26, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Peru Violence

A lot of questionable information here. I changed the header from "Violence" to "Crime," as most of the reports of violence came from a single sensational news article by El Comercio. Also removed questionable links and broken links and information about the history of violence in Peru during Carnival, as the links are now broken. From personal experience, most of the crime associated with Carnival is in certain areas of Lima, normally people throwing water on you and while you're distracted they'll rob you're purse. There is sometimes crime that is violent, but I don't see why it has it's own section to such an extent that it is worse that what happens during Carnival in other South American countries. If you can find more information with valid sources, please expand upon the section. ---- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.121.163.3 (talk) 21:14, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Splitting proposal

The section "Geographic distribution" takes up about 80% of the article. That's four times as much as the entire rest of the article. It should be split into a new article. JIP | Talk 13:38, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

How do you think we could summarize the list in the main article? Perhaps this article could list all the continents or subregions, explain how their countries normally celebrate Carnival and give some relevant examples. What do you think? ObserveOwl (talk) 10:20, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

The issue that I find with many articles like these is that they become overlong due to editors including examples from every country on Earth. A summary of each country's celebration is not necessary, especially when many of these have their own articles that are easily accessible through Template:Carnival around the world which is located at the bottom of the article. For those without their own articles, create new ones and move the information from here to there. Then delete the section. This article should be a general history and explanation of carnaval as a whole, not how each country individually celebrates it. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 21:53, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 14 January 2020 and 29 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tayloremily2126.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:50, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Carnival

Carnival is a Western Christian festive season that occurs before the liturgical season of Lent.[2] The main events typically occur during February or early March, during the period historically known as Shrovetide (or Pre-Lent). Carnival typically involves public celebrations, including events such as parades, public street parties and other entertainments, combining some elements of a circus. 188.172.108.99 (talk) 19:30, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Information Literacy and Scholarly Discourse

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 January 2023 and 11 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Vrwebre, Queen0527, Karynabaez, Vgreen2 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Ashlie.k.hood, Loveyduck, Greenwashed98.

— Assignment last updated by Queen0527 (talk) 21:55, 2 May 2023 (UTC)