Talk:Short-tailed hawk

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Some of the information in the Meyer and Miller article contradicts earlier information on this page, but the article looks pretty reliable. (For instance, it lists all trees that housed nests about which detailed information is known, and only one was a mangrove.) However, if anyone has the sources used previously, maybe we can work out any disagreements.

I left in two pieces of information—ranging into the temperate parts of the Andes, and the lack of a dark morph in the South American population—even though from Meyer and Miller I suspect they refer to B. albigularis, the White-throated Hawk, formerly considered a subspecies but listed as a separate species at Buteo and by the AOU. Maybe we can figure that out too. —JerryFriedman 15:31, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Also, is there any chance that the cypress trees mentioned in earlier versions are the true cypresses of Mexico and Central America rather than the bald cypress (in a different family) in which it nests in Florida? —JerryFriedman 15:35, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I for one can't help much with this. I wrote the article because I've seen the species, but I don't have a family mongraph for raptors, so the article is based on field guides and odd scraps. As a Brit, my knowledge otherwise is non-existent. And as for US trees.... jimfbleak 16:55, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Birds of Venezuela gives Short-tailed in Ven, Argentina, Paraguay, trindad and SE Brazil, and White-throated in the Andes of Columbia south to c Argentina and Chile. jimfbleak 17:02, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Unfortunately, contrary to what you said on my Talk page, I don't think we've got the range sorted out. Miller and Meyer clearly say and illustrate on a map that its range includes all of South America east of the Andes south to SE Brazil and N. Argentina, and west of the Andes to Ecuador. This pretty definitely conflicts with Hilty, so maybe we should say something vaguer like "tropical and sub-tropical parts of S. America, mostly east of the Andes". —JerryFriedman 15:33, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

If Miller and Meyer don't split White-throated, surely that explains the difference? Kilty does, and gives clear ranges for both. I'm reluctant to reduce the information content, but we clearly need another reliable source. I have Birds of Trinidad and Tobago which gives a SAm range, but since only Short-tailed occurs in T&T, not clear if split (I suspect not). jimfbleak 16:54, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

See The Hawk Conservancy - very clear, although albogularis is not given specific status, its range as a subspecies is, and is exclusive from the two Short-tailed forms. jimfbleak 16:58, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't think I was clear. Miller and Meyer do split White-throated. Nevertheless, the range they show for Short-tailed includes Colombia, Ecuador, Venezuela, The Countries Formerly Known As The Guianas, almost all of Brazil, Bolivia, Paraguay, and northern interior Argentina, (Also Trinidad and other off-shore islands.) Most of that is east of the Andes, and the northern SAm range is missing a narrow north-south strip, mostly in Ecuador, that I take to be the high Andes. Anyway, that's a lot more than just "Ven, Argentina, Paraguay, Trinidad and SE Brazil".

The Hawk Conservancy page certainly shows that the ranges are separate, but I don't think it settles the questions of whether there are Short-tails in Bolivia, or Ecuador, or northern Brazil, etc. Unless I'm missing something. —JerryFriedman 19:25, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think the article has got about as far as we can go on distribution. Kilty says to SE Brazil, and his Venezuela map has this species all along the border with N. Brazil and the Guianas, so it certainly occurs throughout Brazil, otherwise, I've nothing to add to the sources. jimfbleak 05:55, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Picture of a Short Tailed Hawk

I've gone ahead and posted the picture.

Amendezg (talk) 05:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)