Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Gzornenplatz/Evidence

Comments on evidence by Snowspinner

Discussion on e-mail list is not the same thing as "Community consensus." How many people use the mailing list? I don't. "Community consensus" means some sort of official vote. No evidence exists that Wik was banned permanently by "Community consensus," or the other three methods OneGuy 22:27, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Untrue. Neither of the people listed as being banned by community consensus (Mr. Treason and Willy on Wheels) were banned following a poll. Snowspinner 01:40, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "neither of the people." I haven't seen any reference that shows that Wik was banned by community consensus. Discussion on the mailing is not community consensus. OneGuy 02:21, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

You might try reading my comment to notice where I list both the people who have been definitively banned by community consensus. Snowspinner 03:07, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

I am sorry but you are not making that much sense. So you are saying that two people were banned indefinitely by community consensus? And? How does that relate to what I wrote that there is no proof that Wik was banned indefinitely by community consensus? OneGuy 06:35, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Neither of the people who have been indisputably banned by community consensus were banned following any sort of poll. And one of them, Willy on Wheels, was banned for a more or less mirror of the Wik attack. So to say that community consensus requires some kind of vote is wrong. It doesn't. Rather, there are actions that the community consensus is to ban for. So far these demonstrably include wild personal attacks/legal threats/death threats and vandalbot attacks. Snowspinner 13:30, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)

With all due respect, OneGuy, this line of argument simply betrays the fact that you weren't active on Wikipedia last May during the vandalbot incident. Anyone who was actively participating in the Wikipedia community at the time recognized that there was a consensus to ban the person responsible for the vandalbot, and all of the available evidence indicated that person was Wik. Consensus is not necessarily determined by votes, and under the circumstances an "official vote" would have been a totally needless formality.

Also, this consensus was hardly based on the mailing list alone; that just happens to be the handiest place to find evidence of it these many months later. The question was widely discussed on IRC, Vandalism in progress, the Village pump, and probably elsewhere too, but IRC logs aren't available and it would be too difficult to track down the right discussions in the voluminous revision histories of ViP and the Pump. --Michael Snow 17:20, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)