Talk:Black tea

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Caffeine

Does anyone have any factua basis for Black tea containing more caffeine than other genres? As I understood it, this was common misconception, and in fact caffeine content is independent of processing method. -- कुक्कुरोवाच|Talk‽ 03:45, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

According to this, black tea's average caffeine content is 40 mg (range 25-110) while green is avg 20 (range 8-30). They cite a International Food Information Council reference book, which sounds fairly authoritative.

One point worth noting though (which is missing from the aforementioned page) is that teas also contain significant amounts of theophylline and theobromine, which have similar pharmacological actions to caffeine. Black tea is particularly high in theophylline. Jpatokal 05:24, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

My concern is that studies may be unknowingly offset by variations in brewing time, etc. for different kinds of tea, and also that I don't know what the "International Food Information Council" is and I'm not sure I trust it. There are other sites that give contrary information. (e.g., Twinings (battle of the tea brands)--[1], though I suppose they don't have a Council backing them up.)

I did research on this at one point, and iirc, the processing method has no effect on the caffeine (and related chemicals) content, but as a typical beverage, black tea has ~2x as much caffeine. This is, again iirc, due partly to the types of leaves typically used for each style, and partly due to the longer steeping time for black tea. --Delirium 07:40, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)

"Yang processed the same leaves using 6 methods: green, yellow, black, white, oolong and red. She then examined their chemical compositions. She found that white tea contains the most caffeine (3.9%), follows by green tea (3.4%), yellow tea (3.1%) and oolong tea (3.1%)."[2]Rocator (talk) 21:23, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

"Caffeine contents of black teas (22-28 mg/g of DM) were significantly higher than in less fermented green teas (11-20 mg/g of DM)". DM stands for dry matter. [3] Rocator (talk) 21:23, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand why black tea would have more caffeine then green. The caffeine would, if anything, be destroyed in the oxidation process, right? I've read some research papers and, to me, the papers suggest that the levels are about the same and there is no statistical difference between the two types.

I would imagine that since coffee is usually stronger (more caffeine) when darker, people thought the same thing applies to tea - which is how this whole debacle started.

More should be looked into the biochemistry behind the oxidation process in tea. It is possible that something inert is oxidized into caffeine or another stimulant lumped in with the caffeine category.

this source [4], although only briefly looked at seems to suggest about equal caffeine content hinting at the possibility that oxidation does little to change the caffeine content of tea

Also, the article should NOT claim that black tea has more caffeine in it until a legitimate source is provided (Twinings is not legit, nor does their source seem to be). Furthermore, if anything, the article should be changed to what is most logical from a biochemical stand point: Green tea if not equal has MORE caffeine in it then black tea!24.147.92.229 (talk) 05:56, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

The source for green having less caffeine than black is the International Food Information Council, not Twinings. If you have sources to the contrary, please list them.

Also, green tea is typically steeped for under a minute, while black teas are usually 3-5 min. This alone will ensure that a cup of black tea is stronger than green. Jpatokal (talk) 03:06, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm so glad this discussion is here, as I was going to start it myself. Without any reliable sources, this is the picture I'm getting in my head. Oxidation has little or no effect on caffeine in tea leaves. In comparison to coffee beans, tea has more caffeine by weight. Generally tea leaves are steeped and removed (excluding macha) whereas coffee beans are ground up in the drink. This means no caffeine escapes in your cup of coffee but, it may in your tea. Also, one would use less tea, by weight, than coffee per cup, reducing the caffeine content in the cup even more. Furthermore, different teas have different sized leaves and, as has already been noted, different steeping times. Generally black leaves, in comparison to others, are cut smaller, rolled tighter, steeped longer and at higher temperatures, leading to greater caffeine content than green or oolong leaves which have larger leaves and lower steep times and temperatures. Also, as others have mentioned, there are other chemicals present in tea that may even soften the effects of the caffeine.

Again, this is all anecdotal and off the top of my head. I am planning a year long research project in Sichuan with the goal of answering as many of these unanswered questions as I can. Maybe I can update here as I go. DaBOB (talk) 06:18, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Tea in the West

This articles says, "Traditionally, black tea was the only tea known to Western culture." However, the article on Sweet tea says , "The oldest known recipe for sweet ice tea was published in 1879 in a community cookbook called Housekeeping in Old Virginia, by Marion Cabell Tyree. This recipe calls for green tea. In fact, most sweet tea consumed during this period was green tea. However, during World War II, the major sources of green tea were cut off from the United States, leaving them with tea almost exclusively from British-controlled India which produces black tea. Americans came out of the war drinking nearly 99 percent black tea." Which is correct? WilliamBarrett 21:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Considering the Sweet Tea claim is actually sourced (from the cookbook), I say we remove the sentence. It's entirely too sweeping anyway.--Scott5834 22:39, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

The article says "... the term black tea refers to the colour of the oxidized leaves.", however, according to why-red-tea-is-called-black-tea the term "black tea" derives from "black dragon tea", which is translated from Oolong tea, the type of tea originally exported from China to the West. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Corani (talk • contribs) 12:04, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Varieties Vs. Types

I would like to note that I think and it is probably common sense that varieties refer to different tasting teas i.e. Keemun v. Darjeeling (there is a biological variety there too, is this case) and types refer to their common processing. This is less confusing that the current setup which is. --Iateasquirrel 04:38, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Varieties

I've made the varieties list look more like the other articles, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Tea/Type Guidelines for guidelines, add comments to the talk page.--Iateasquirrel 05:43, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm wondering where Kenyan black tea fits into all of this. Should it be added as a variety? Cervenka (talk) 16:43, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

new formatting

Just to explain the new formatting. It's alphabetical, thats why China comes first. There will probably need to be some discussion on how far to go creating new articles on types of tea. --Iateasquirrel 00:20, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Ceylon classifications

These use the word 'liquors' several times and appear to be a description of the leaves. Is this the right word? The link points to distilled beverages. PerlKnitter 17:11, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

"liquor" in tea jargon refers to the tea-infused hot water after steeping, but I agree it's confusing since the more common use of "liquor" among the general public is for distilled alcoholic beverages. --Delirium 05:33, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Nutritional Information

Tea of all kinds has no calories, sodium, or carbohydrates (although sometimes you see "less than 1g" on a package). Tea is considered an "empty drink" because it has no basic nutrients.

--Moop stick 16:39, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Brewing

Can someone add information about the typical temperature of water (boiling or under boiling, as with green tea?) and brewing time of black tea? Badagnani 01:47, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I've added a a couple guidelines for brewing black tea. Scott5834 15:52, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The serving size is way off: one look at any teabag box readily available, it's .08oz/ 2.25g a serving NOT 4g. Also the reference is invalid (non-working link). Should I upload a picture of a box of Lipton or Red Rose as a reference?

To that, an unrelated question (not being snarky): How does "living in the real world" get cited? I get in trouble for making unauthorized edits to a blatant errors for things I can hold in my hand and show is false, yet get citation nazis up my backside, but a bogus link and no one bats an eye. 67.86.67.137 (talk) 11:29, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Inferior to green tea in Asia?

I just read that in Chinese culture black tea is generally considered to be "very inferior" to green tea. Is this correct? If so, this should be added to the article. Also, tea experts out there, could you please look at the above comment and add to the article accordingly? Badagnani 09:43, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is true. There are lots of famous "red teas" (as it's known in China). If you can find a reputable source for this, feel free to add it to the article. Scott5834 15:52, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

In China the teas viewed as the most sophisticated and refined are invariably greens and oolongs. That doesn't mean black tea is considered bad, per se, but it's not the kind of thing you serve at formal occasions or to guests you wish to impress. Flourdustedhazzn (talk) 22:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Do we have "lots" of Chinese "red teas" listed here? I think we only have a few. Can we add more? Badagnani 22:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I would also be very interested to learn more about cultural perceptions and tastes toward different kinds of tea around the world. If anyone has any sourced research about it, please add your knowledge to this article. I find from my experiences in Xinjiang that the local Turkic-speaking cultures also prefer black tea, which they also call "red tea," kizil chay, in the same way that neighboring cultures do. Particularly in southern cities like Kashgar and Hotan, Uyghurs drink black tea flavored with flowers (gul chay) or spices (chay dora), while Uyghurs and Kazakhs in northern Xinjiang like brick tea brewed with milk with a pinch of salt as part of the traditional breakfast (etken chay). They find green tea too bitter, while local Han people seem to find black tea too bland or too strong, or at least, inappropriate for certain times of days or certain seasons. I'm very curious to find out the history behind black tea and why it's not as popular among East Asians as it is in the rest of the world. How did this state of affairs come to be? --124.119.124.109 (talk) 13:11, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

My wild, unreferenced speculation would be that the preference for black tea in the West would have to do with the tea trade in the age of sail. Black tea has a longer shelf life, hence may have been preferred for export. Back tea became the entrenched norm in the west. By contrast, shelf life wasn't a concern in traditional tea producing regions, so preferences for different varieties would have developed due to different taste/cultural preferences. 124.176.52.133 (talk) 00:00, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Classification

The information here seems to conflict with the information on the Orange pekoe and Dust (tea) pages. This page says that B.O.P. and B.O.P.F. are much sought after/the most sought after, whereas the other two pages seem to say that B.O.P. and the fannings are a low-grade product. The orange pekoe page does mention that there are different grading systems for CTC, orange pejoe, and "orthodox" teas, but not what the differences are. Any experts care to make this all more clear? --75.35.5.141 05:01, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

This has been rectified Basejumper123 16:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Oxidation question

Is the oxidation of black tea enzymatic browning? Tom Harrison ^Talk 12:43, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Question about image description in Gallery

Near the end of the page on the Gallery section. The image bears the following description : Black Tea in cup. View tea power.

Whats is meant by power here? Since there is visible tea powder in the bottom of the cup is this a typo?

Otherwise, maybe the description could be clarified because it seems puzzling at first glance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bleakcabal (talk • contribs) 18:02, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Manufacturing

Just noticed this section appears two times. I'm not an Wikipedia editor at all, so yeah I can't make changes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.26.30.5 (talk) 15:43, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh yes you can, just click the "Edit" button! Jpatokal (talk) 02:28, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

New article

I feel that an article for China Black Tea should be created. I am working on creating it but was wondering if this is a relevant topic to add? Or should I forget about creating the article because it could be covered here?? What do you guys think? Veganlover1993

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History

Some history would be interesting/informative. No mention of the invention of the process of converting green tea into black tea for instance.84.93.82.20 (talk) 16:54, 12 March 2018 (UTC) Adagio67 (talk) 16:55, 12 March 2018 (UTC) (oops, thought I was logged in)

Tables vs. Readability

The big table(s) early in the article (at Varieties and Names, and maybe also Blends) are really off-putting when trying to just read the basics about the topics. The readability is very poor this way... people won't want to interrupt a basic overview to read an entire table packed with difficult proper names, nor will they want to have to scroll down 5 pages to just get past the table. I'd like to recommend moving the large table(s) to the end of the article and keeping the main body of the article readable in a straight pass without having to resize screens or scroll around to comprehend a section. If it's desired to keep the introduction of sub-topics in their current order, then each section might just give 2 short examples, in flowing text, and then link to "see table A for a more complete list". The first introduction of a thing doesn't need to include a comprehensive index of the things. DKEdwards (talk) 03:44, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Harvesting

Has anyone considered adding to the article with information on harvesting practices surrounding the tea industry?Danauca (talk) 21:03, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Blogspam

I don't think this is a WP:RS. Invasive Spices (talk) 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Low-quality research

@Atchoum: please stop inserting this. We don't care what "low-quality research" says. We care what high-quality research says. Please look at WP:MEDRS and WP:DUE. PepperBeast (talk) 15:47, 8 December 2022 (UTC)