Talk:Cerro Maravilla murders

This article has been marked for accuracy dispute for the following reasons:

Untitled

The best souce of invormation in this case are the Senate investigations tapes in the UPR.I still remember a night when all TV shows stop in Puerto Rico to broadcast the first police official telling the truth about the torture and killings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.145.175.135 (talk) 19:43, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Right. But how do we get them? - Mtmelendez ^(Talk) 20:28, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Accuracy dispute

It was later known in a P.R. Senate investigation that the two activists were enticed into bombing a TV tower on top of Puerto Rico's Maravilla Hill by an undercover agent, Alejandro Gonzalez Malavé.

I'm not familiarized with the case, but for the sensibility of it, the accusations, and the body implied as investigator, there should be a reference to back up the article and the above text.

- Maio 01:27, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)

This case is too complex and convoluted and can not be described accurately unless actual transcripts from the hearings are presented verbatim and explained (these should be available to the public). What makes this case especially complicated is that there were two separate Senate hearings prosecuted by two different independent counselors several years apart. To add further complication, the case never really had a clear-cut ending and many of the main participants in the events of Cerro Maravilla were either jailed or assasinated.

- --Tranka 00:45, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I'm one of the victim's (Carlos Enrique Soto Arriví) youngest brother and I grew up with this case since I was twelve when my brother died. The allegations that they were going to blow up the Rikavisión (Channel 7) tower was proven false during the hearings in the 80's. All they were carrying were charcoal, charcoal fluid, and guns provided by the undercover agent. Their intentions were to deliver a message about Puerto Rican independence that day. It was proven that both Rosado and Soto had been disarmed and then executed by testimonies of the cab driver, Julio Ortiz Molina, and by some of the police agents involved, including the one who shot Soto. See "Murder Under Two Flags: The U.S., Puerto Rico, and the Cerro Maravilla Cover-Up" by Anne Nelson and Manny Suárez's "Réquiem en el Cerro Maravilla."

This case is huge and requires more information, however I can't seem to find any. I added the "stub" and Citation needed markers to see if anyone is up to the task.Mtmelendez 15:59, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

There!! I did some research and posted the article as neutral and with as many references as possible. I hope it clears the matter. Mtmelendez 20:48, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

To the brother of Carlos Soto: I'm deeply sorry for your loss, but for the sake of Wikipedia all references point out that they were going to blow up the towers. I'm going to add the fact that the official intentions have been disputed. Additionally, feel free to post a picture of him in his article and this one, it would be a great contribution to Wikipedia. Mtmelendez 21:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

GA review

After reviewing the article I believe that it passes all of the Good Article criteria. The article is well written, and uses its sources to avoid WP:OR, and WP:NPOV problems. The best way to improve it, I would say, would be to find additional sources to support or qualify the current ones. While there are plenty of in-line citations they rely on a fairly small pool of major sources. Eluchil404 13:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

• • Agreed. Its a good article but due to the controversies sorrounding it, may need additional sources. Can anyone find sources to the PR Senate investigations reports, they should be a matter of public record, right? - 69.19.14.18 17:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

GA review — kept

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Ruslik 13:24, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

The term "activists"

The article refers to the victims of the Maravilla incidents as "activists"; yet, the investigations clearly indicate that they were there to commit a criminal act of some kind. That they were suckered into it or not, and were later executed by corrupt officers, doesn't change this fact. They may or may not have been terrorists but they certainly were not peaceful activists; they knew they were going to do something illegal. Calling them 'activists' does a disservice to actual peaceful political dissenters. Another term should be used -Wilfredo Martinez (talk) 11:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

There are non-violent activists and violent activists alike. The difference, I think, is that both are actively promoting their cause, albeit by different means. If there are better definitions, please suggest them here. Sorry for the late reply, ;-D - Mtmelendez ^(Talk) 14:41, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Sometimes no answer is the best answer. It seems like nowadays to many people you are terrorist simply by the way you look, walk, or breath. The problem is not with the suspects but with the paranoid labelers running around labeling as a terrorist everyone whom they dont like. Terrorism implies terror, and fact is, I dont know any sane person who would be terrorized because a government communications tower in some deep in the forest place is being sabotaged. Again, oftentimes no response is the best response... My name is Mercy11 (talk) 04:14, 29 June 2013 (UTC), and I approve this message.

Cerro Maravilla New Information

Unbeknownst to many Puerto Ricans until this day, April 6, 2011, Ex-governor Rafael Hernández-Colón as Secretary of Justice 1965/1967, knew of the brutal persecutions of “Independentistas” (Those who favored Independence for Puerto Rico) under the administration of Roberto Sánchez Vilella 1964/1969. Hernández-Colón was the political figure that knew the most of how the Div. of Intelligence of the Puerto Rico police force worked. He learned of the division’s actions when he was Secretary of Justice from 1965 to 1967 by memos sent to him from the Intelligence division. He would often times call the division for specific information on Independentistas. He also had knowledge of the division’s work when he was Senator from 1969 to 1972 and when he was governor from 1973 to 1977 on the Popular Democratic Party ballot (PPD in Spanish). The Intelligence division was dedicated to the persecution of Independence followers which they called terrorists, 24/7. The Intelligence division would send memos to the Governor, Secretary of Justice and the FBI on their activities. In 1976, Hernández-Colón lost the governorship to opposition leader Carlos Romero-Barceló, candidate of the New Progressive Party (PNP in Spanish), who favored statehood for Puerto Rico. In 1974 Hernández-Colón was losing in the polls to Romero-Barceló. In August of that year, Hernández-Colón proclaimed himself as “Commander in chief” of the Puerto Rico police force. On July 25, 1978 two Independentista youths were slain by police at Cerro Maravilla Mountain in Jayuya/Villalba area under Romero-Barceló governorship and in that same year, he was being accused as "Commander in chief" of the police department for this crime, by oppostion leader Rafael Hernández-Colón. The police that intervened in this event had all been hired by the PPD, Hernández-Colón’s political party and the undercover agent also (Alejandro González-Malave). Coronel Astol Calero Toledo hired by the PPD, my ex-boss, hired the undercover agent and refused to “burn” him when he was discovered by Socialist Independence party members, early in 1978. In a 1997 Senate hearing on the “Cerro Maravilla Case”, ex-coronel Enrique Meliá León, informed the commission that on July 26, 1978 (the next day of slayings) he went to the Ponce Police Headquarters and found out what had “really” happened (the full story) at “Cerro Maravilla” and that he had informed Rafael Hernández-Colón about it on July 26, 1978. Hernández-Colón was to be Romero-Barcelo’s contender in the 1980 elections. Till this day April 6, 2011, Hernández-Colón has not said a word about what he knew and when, about the “Cerro Maravilla" case. You be the judge! Ricardocerromar (talk) 03:59, 7 April 2011 (UTC)Written by Ricardo Marrero, Puerto Rico worked for Police Intelligence in the 60’s.

GA Reassessment

Cerro Maravilla murders

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • GAN review not found

Result: Delisted. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:21, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

This 2007 addition has 8 citation needed tags and might also contain questionable/unreliable sources and need cleanup. Spinixster (trout me!) 08:53, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

• This seems interesting and there are two fully unused books in the further reading; please delist if I don't return within a week. Queen of Hearts ^talk 21:03, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
  • Hi Queen of Hearts do you still intend to work on this article? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:25, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

    @AirshipJungleman29 yes. I've made some edits but they've mainly been adding more things as opposed to fixing what's there. Queen of Hearts (talk) 00:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

    That didn't work out. @AirshipJungleman29: I am fine with delisting, as I do not expect to have the time to work on this any time soon. Queen of Hearts (talk) 01:53, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.